Honestly LL, none of the crap that I rehash need addressed, it's been addressed to death and yet on occassion I exhume the remains and give it another autopsy.
What I need is some invisible duct tape over my mouth to keep me from 'slipping' into the Spanish Inquisition" mode that I rarely, yet occassionally throw myelf into.
I think at this point, the ONLY thing that saves me is that the questions are less frequent, or maybe I'm kidding myelf here, my Hs opinion may be that they're constant.
T2~ EXCELLENT advice from LL--you are in good hands...I have to admit, I am a little jealous of the flowers....hmmmm....think I may go send myself flowers.....
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
T2, Tried to send you an email but it was returned. Sounds like everthing is going good between you and your H! You have to learn to forgive. For once he is ready to save your M and you are not. You'll get there! I'll check up on you later! Deb
Yesterday (Friday) afternoon, I had a long phone chat with a co-worker that I'd been 'buddies' with for years. He retired five years ago, while still in his forties and ready to take on career # 2, and moved to Florida.
All the years I'd known him, he was a "serial cheater." He's a handsome man with a charismatic personality. He drew women to him, like moths to a flame, it was amazing to stand back an watch. OF COURSE he had wife, a successful woman that worked in the medical field. I'd known her for years but only on a very cursory level. She seemed just the opposite of him. She was serious, aloof and looked as though it pained her to be social. I guess because my 'friend' seemed so blatant in his carousing, I always assumed she 'knew' that he was a cheat and allowed it for some reason. But of course she 'didn't' know in the same sense that none of us did. She suspected I'm sure, did a little investigating I'm sure, but never dug deep enough to let the big cat, out of the bag. BUT apparently since they've lived in Florida she HAS found her proof or finally decided to no longer ignore the painful truth, and she lowered the boom in a confrontation about a year or two ago.
After 20 years of cheating, while this friend and I talked on the phone yesterday, he told me how he's finally 'cured' of his philandering ways, and why. I felt like I'd just been privy to being that proverbial 'fly on the wall' in a men's locker room, where all the 'inside male' scope gets told that we women never get to hear.
He said that as a cheater, he lived dual lives. One life was as his wife's husband, the other was free to be, Don Juan. He said he'd learned to 'read' women at a young age. That he learned that there were 'signal' they sent out to men when they were physically attracted to him. He said women will engage you in 'personal' conversation that goes beyond social banter. They'll begin to tell you about their needs and disappointments in the men in their lives and so it was easy to for him to step in and be the man they wanted, by playing off thier 'dreams.'
He said some of his affairs lasted 3-4 yrs concurrently with others. He said he truly enjoyed those relationships, at the time, he felt no guilt or remorse, because he always told himself that while he was cheating on his wife, he was also being a loving and engaging husband at home.
He said and did whatever would keep his wife happy and 'off balance' enough so that IF she occassionally accused him throughout the years he knew he'd treated her well enough that he could convince her that she was over reacting or 'silly' to think he'd ever do such a thing.
He knew she'd always believe him, or at least choose to convince herself she did.
He said that when she finally confronted him, after all these years, she had PROOF and plenty of it. She HAD done/or had someone else do, a tremendous amount of detective work. He said the night that she confronted him with all the tangible proof, he sat across from her in their living room and his 'life washed out of him.' He said that while he sat there, literally for hours, and listened to her rant and rave, scream and yell, cry and howl, that he thought he was in hell. He said he couldn't deny a thing and he didn't try to. He said he promised, he cried, he confessed but...he wanted to run and he did. He ran to one of his 'honey's' houses and stayed there for weeks. But he knew that the life he'd lived all those many years was over.
He said that he and his W decided to seek counseling and he began to look at all he'd done, all those years, and he also finally realized that this wasn't all just a game meant to feed his ego, it was a nightmare and life destroying realization for the ONE WOMAN that he'd always truly loved, respected and admired.
HE said his cheating was NEVER about her or anything she lacked as a wife. He said she was perfect and yet he did all these horrible things NOT to hurt HER but to make himself FEEL good.
He said that HE has chosen to NEVER be that man again. HE said he is truly grateful that his wife is still with him and willing to take a chance on him again. He said he takes her anger, her mistrust, her insecurity and dedicates himself to healing all of that for HER.
He said that he doesn't need to know WHY he cheated all those years, it's enough for HIM to know it was wrong and that he will NEVER do it again. He said he can't change the past BUT he can dedicate his life to being the best man he can be for his W now and in the future.
He said he knows what his patterns were, recognizes the 'signs' and NOW is able to step back and say to himself, STOP, and he stops.
He said he no longer allows women or himself to engage in inappropriate 'conversations.' He knows that he has no business sharing private thoughts and intimacies with any woman other than his wife.
He said that all his affairs started with he and the OW becoming confidants, then on to lovers.
He taught me alot about the male psyche yesterday and how easily they compartmentalize their misdeeds to the point that they convince themselves that lying is a kindness in that it serves to appease the innocent wife/woman in thier life while they're betraying them behind their back.
He said that cheating whether done once or multiple times is an obsession that knows no concience, no fear of consequences when you are in the middle of it.
He said that men can shut down all moral guidelines until one day all the horrible truth is revealed TO THEM as to who they've truly been AND that's when they crumble in shame. And THAT's when they STOP and realize all they've done to those they TRULY loved.
I hardly recognized the man I talked to yesterday, but I found I respected him for the first time in all the years I've known him.
I took the night off from work in order to attend a wedding. I hadn't told my H that I was planning on attending because I have visions of a wedding we attended Thanksgiving week last year (while we were still in roller coaster hell)and I remembered all the pain that the words of that sacred ceremony stirred within me, so I wanted to 'enjoy' this wedding without him.
H unexpectedly called early afternoon (thinking I'd be leaving for work around 4pm) to ask if he could pop over for coffee before I left. My son, innocently let the cat out of the bag that I wasn't going to work, so I told him that I'd taken the day off to attend a co-worker's wedding. He was definitely surprised that I had withheld this from him and I think even more surprised that I was going without HIM. I coud see he was "saddened" or "confused" might be a better description of his response to the news.
I didn't apologize or anything for my decision, nor did I offer and explanation. I didn't/wouldn't want to tell him that my disappointment in his breaking our vows would make his attendance at this sacred ceremony seems almost tainted by his presence....but, I think he probably knows that anyway.
The wedding was beautiful...it was a "Disney" theme. All the church music was beautiful Disney songs (except for the one religious song sung immediately before the taking of vows, and even that was beautiful). The bride, 38 yrs old was absolutely beautiful, the love on her face made her glow. Her new H, 40ish and previously married, gave a 'speech' to her at the reception that was one of the most beautiful and heartfelt and MATURE 'promises' I'd ever heard at a wedding.
The vows reminded me of what my H forgot. I wondered as I sat there listening to the ceremony how would we (my H & I) really 'recapture' that kind of commitment after all this damage, and I'm not sure we can.
I feel as though we've made a mockery of those marital promises we made to each other so many years ago. I fear that those 'words' for us are somehow meaningless now.
I wonder if there really is a way to 'go back.' I wonder if the bridge we've crossed these passed two years isn't collapsed.
I even gave some thought to 'recommitment' ceremonies that I've heard others talk about. Is that what my H and I would need? Would that have any meaning? What, does any of it mean now?
Today, as I revel in the joy of my 'friend's' new marriage, and pray that she and her H never find themselves where I am today, I also sit here feeling that we've lost so much that I wonder if we can truly rise from the ashes of the destruction of our M.
I think I WILL need a new 'proposal' of sorts...and it will have to come from and be initiated by him, THEN I will know that HE is fully committed to this M, otherwise I feel that I will always wonder if he hasn't just resigned himself to it. I know that I need "proof" in some way or measure that my H is JUST AS commited as I am this time, or I can not accept a watered down version of what we originally promised one another so many years ago.
