A lot of people do have trouble with the idea that love is a decision. I understand it for myself as the person creates a favorable environment for love to blossom as a feeling in his heart and mind. For example, if I meet a handsome new man who shows interest in me, that man starts to appear in my thoughts. I can have good thoughts or not so good thoughts about him. By allowing the good thoughts, allowing the idea of him to stimulate me in that way creates the love feeling in me. Maybe not for others, but for me, I can feel love long before I know a person well enough for him to actually merit that feeling. I have recognized my role in creating a nest for love to thrive in. Once that nest is created, feelings of love can come into my heart.
Well, you're not likely to have good thoughts and create a nest for a handsome man you met that was rude to you, or insulted you, or totally ignored you. It's kind of hard to see the old man as the new man when you have years of hurt lying between you, that they think should vanish with the sweep of a magic wand.
A lot of people do have trouble with the idea that love is a decision. I understand it for myself as the person creates a favorable environment for love to blossom as a feeling in his heart and mind.
That's been an annoying part of my situation. My wife just this past weekend told me she knows that love is a choice. She just can't make that choice as she's been hurt so often that she can't see herself being vulnerable to me again.
Your comments on focusing on the negatives is oh so true. Everytime I try to talk about positive moments, recent or in the past, she always finds a negative to latch onto and drive into my heart. This is where it's getting old as in counseling last year I tried to bring up how negative she had gotten. IT DID NOT GO OVER WELL......
So...was bringing up her negativity..positive..or negative? ;P
Maybe she thinks when you "try to talk about" positive moments...you are trying to plead your case (pursuing)...so she finds a negative. (But she's driving it into your heart? Really?)
Well, you're not likely to have good thoughts and create a nest for a handsome man you met that was rude to you, or insulted you, or totally ignored you. It's kind of hard to see the old man as the new man when you have years of hurt lying between you, that they think should vanish with the sweep of a magic wand.
Right, no. Magic wand won't do. However, the Retrouvaille weekend is not a magic wand. It is a deeply involving 46 hour experience of honesty and openness and forgiveness. Re-opening one's heart is difficult. But I experienced it after the Retrouvaille weekend and after a few weeks of Post sessions. This experience gave me enough confidence to be willing to trust again. And this was difficult for me. But I understood all the ramifications of making the choice and not making the choice. Note that I did not say that I was willing to "try to trust again". That was one of the ramifications. There is no trying, there is doing or not doing.
That's been an annoying part of my situation. My wife just this past weekend told me she knows that love is a choice. She just can't make that choice as she's been hurt so often that she can't see herself being vulnerable to me again.
Your comments on focusing on the negatives is oh so true. Everytime I try to talk about positive moments, recent or in the past, she always finds a negative to latch onto and drive into my heart. This is where it's getting old as in counseling last year I tried to bring up how negative she had gotten. IT DID NOT GO OVER WELL......
So...was bringing up her negativity..positive..or negative? ;P
Maybe she thinks when you "try to talk about" positive moments...you are trying to plead your case (pursuing)...so she finds a negative. (But she's driving it into your heart? Really?)
Ironically she had brought up most recent positive/negative bashing experience. We were talking about going to brunch with her dad for her B'day. It was at a nice resturant that she took me to for my 40th B'day last year. She started by saying how it was fun. I acknowledged and validated. Then she said that her biggest memory was of how hurt she when we got home as I neglected/ignored her for about 45 minutes while I was working on our home stereo. I couldn't argue with her as she had really challenged why it couldn't have waited till morning. That's how she goes about positive/negative bashing...
It drives into my heart as it ruins the positive memory for me as all I remember is the hurt/pain that she felt.
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
For years I tried to solve my marital problems by reading books, taking what they advised, and trying to do it on our own. It never worked. It's like saying to a smoker, "Just stop smoking." Of course, that is the cure for smoking, but it is a lot harder than it sounds. So yes, a good part of the cure for our marriage was to stop focusing on the negative, but we both had to be taught how to do it.
When our unhappiness together reached a crisis point and we were about to contact divorce lawyers, someone told me about Retrouvaille. As a last ditch effort, I suggested that we try the weekend. I never imagined that it would be effective. But that one weekend changed our lives. I suggest that you try to get your wife to go to a weekend with you. First they will teach you good communication skills which help every aspect of the marriage, and then they will go on to teach things like looking at the positive.
I just went out for lunch, and my Indian colleagues wanted to finally see the church next to our office building, so we ended up in an Ash Wednesday mass. And look what has happened here...
Sara,
Maybe I need to give it some time. We still have 5 post sessions, and the really "big" topics are still ahead of us. To me "Love is a decision" simply means, I decide or choose to do loving things for my W with no expectations.
There are a lot of things I do not yet understand about her. Our question last night was what feelings would be an obstacle to the post sessions. That is when she told me all that. I had to ask her several times to give me another example and to tell me more about it, and I am still not sure I truly understood everything. Maybe she does not know herself, or she is not ready to open up to me completely. When she said she was not ready yet to work on our marriage, I thought to myself "But you are working on it. We went to the Retro weekend, to the first post-session, we dialogue every night. That is what I call working on our marriage."
So patience, patience, patience is what I need here. And I need to continue to show her that I love her and want her to be happy through my actions and Dialogue.
AN
Last edited by AnotherNightmare; 02/25/0907:15 PM.
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
She started by saying how it was fun. I acknowledged and validated. Then she said that her biggest memory was of how hurt she when we got home as I neglected/ignored her for about 45 minutes while I was working on our home stereo. I couldn't argue with her as she had really challenged why it couldn't have waited till morning. That's how she goes about positive/negative bashing...
So you acknowledged and validated when she said it was fun, but not when she said it hurt.
Maybe she does not know herself, or she is not ready to open up to me completely.
And that's a really good point. She might not know...she's working through a lot of painful and complicated feelings. So keep that in mind, if she can't give you an answer, or a satisfactory answer, that she might not have one yet.
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When she said she was not ready yet to work on our marriage, I thought to myself "But you are working on it. We went to the Retro weekend, to the first post-session, we dialogue every night. That is what I call working on our marriage."
Right, no. Magic wand won't do. However, the Retrouvaille weekend is not a magic wand.
Agreed...I wasn't really referring specifically to your sitch, though it was your post. I was just thinking about the many guys that come here and want the magic wand...and I was thinking about how they want what you described in that analogy, that we would just create that environment in us to love them again.
I did not realize GAL was so time consuming. Do not even have time to post here.
I have been reading a lot over the last couple of days. I would say the key book I am working through right now is "Love without Hurt". I have had quite a few revelations, even though I just started reading the Bootcamp section and even though I have read similar or even the same statements here on this BB several times.
On Friday, I went to IC and, of course, we started talking of what I had done and what my W had done during our 17-year M. For the first time though, I started realizing (though post-session) what this was doing to me. It created resentments. It created doubt in my mind if I was the only one abusive in our R. Was she not abusive as well? Did she not hurt me badly in this situation or that? Did she not say I was selfish (which typically is something the abuser says)?
I am still not able to identify these feelings in the "heat of the moment". So if my W had been with me in that session, I am sure I would have turned it into some kind of bashing session. But when I started thinking and reading about it, I realized something that Stosny put into perfect words:
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When you die and go to judgement, they won't ask you what your wife did.
A lot of people here say focus on yourself, because you cannot control your W (or any other people for that matter). No question, this is one of the most importance pieces of advice you get here. But I always wondered why this is so important. I finally found the explanation in Stosny's book, or let's say it became crystal clear to me.
As long as I focus on my W and try to change her, I feel powerless and inadequate, because I realize time and time again I cannot accomplish anything this way. I then start to feel resentful towards her and probably act accordingly or even worse, I become abusive. Anyone who is treated like that becomes resentful as well, and as an end result our M will go to he!!.
Even though I have known for quite some time, I am now more determined than ever to change myself. And with any luck, something that Gandhi once said becomes true for my M: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
AN
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
So focus on the actions, right?!