Maybe I should be in piecing part 6?

[sandi2]

Hi HopeforUs,

Haven't been by for a while, but I'm still around. I was scanning over the post and for what it's worth, I think you may be close to getting "burn out". Your needs have gone unmet for a long time. You feel that you have worked your a$$ off trying to make the M stick. You feel that she has not even half heartly put any effort into doing work at the M and nothing about meeting your needs. I think you could be close to getting that burn out feeling. I felt like you were some time back and yet you are still hanging in here fighting.

I don't know, and don't pretend to know, but your wife could still be a WAW in her heart and has just not come around yet. You would think since it doesn't like much being a years since NC with OM that you would have seen more results unless she still has some unresolved resentment she is clinging to.

Wish I could say something encouraging to you, friend. Mainly wanted you to know that I had not forgotten about you. As always, I am hoping things get better soon.

Take care,
Sandi

[fightingirish]

hope...

Im still here too, You know how I feel. I do think you need to lay it out for her, because she JUST DOESN'T GET IT. You are constantly trying and she is mostly staying in the same spot.

This is getting knowwhere fast. You are giving giving giving, and there is just so much someone can take without getting something back.

You deserve so much more , and you know that.

((((((Hope))))

[whatdidido]

I have so many thoughts about your situation. It's hard for me to even express them or help you with the knowledge.

I think both you and your wife have many things to work through. I think both of you want to just have these great feelings and just naturally do things for each other to show that love.

I understand your frustration. You are giving, giving, and giving some more. And, she is not giving to you the way you need.

She thinks love is that fantasy love feeling. She's waiting for something like that to come. You think that she should just do these basic loving things that you have asked for. You are waiting for that to come.

Neither one of you want to sit and talk about it. Because if you have to TALK about it, then it is not real (in your mind).

Love is a choice. If you want to love her, love her. It seems to me that she is choosing to love you, but is not showing you the way you want to be shown. You need to keep calling her on it. I'm not saying this is easy...or fair.....it's marriage. You keep working on it. Are you choosing to love her? I think you are. Just keep doing that.

If you don't want to have this relationship talk about your needs, then go along the way you have but with more purpose. Perhaps, do the Love Dare.

Or, have that talk. Communicate. Tell her you NEED something more....tell her you NEED her to go to Retrouvaille with you. I really don't think she'll say no if you tell her you need this. She seems to me to have chosen to love you and be with you. I hear you as the one that hasn't made the choice yet. But, having you be the only one writing on the forums, I'm basing that just on your posts.

[Hope4us]

She thinks love is that fantasy love feeling. She's waiting for something like that to come. You think that she should just do these basic loving things that you have asked for. You are waiting for that to come.

I hear you as the one that hasn't made the choice yet. But, having you be the only one writing on the forums, I'm basing that just on your posts.

Help me out with these two quotes WDID. Not sure I get what you're saying.

You said she's chosen to love me, but wouldn't you think that if that was the case, she'd do just a few small things that show me that? She knows how I feel about that stupid glass and those stupid undies, but she still keeps them.

And I'm confused by your comment that it seems like I haven't made my choice yet? I made my choice a long time ago. That's why I'm still here. But if she doesn't have ANY feelings like I do, why am I wasting my time?

I've been thinking a lot the last couple days, and I firmly believe she's still talking to OM on an infrequent basis. I'm sure it's just "hi, how ya doin" kind of stuff, but her mood swings are just so severe and she's so different on the weekends vs. when she's working, it's just amazing. What's the common theme? At work she can talk to him without me knowing. Or those reminders of him while she's at work. It's almost like she goes into a mini WD for periods of time. She'll go a few days to a week pretty down, then we'll start connecting and things will be good for a week or so and then BAM! depressed and distant again.

I hope I'm wrong and she's just figuring this stuff out in her head, which may be true, because if there's nothing to remind her of the A, she seems to be fine. Like when we go out of town or when she's off work for longer than a weekend. And when she's had a couple of drinks. When she has those drinks it's like she lets herself go and is REAL with me, but when she returns to work for a few days, then the distance comes back.

Another thing. She brings her laptop home some nights and sits with it. Sometimes she'll set it down and leave the room without locking the thing. Then other times she'll set it down and lock it before she's gone from the room for only a minute or so. Why would she do that? Makes me think she's had an email or something from OM and doesn't want me looking. Happened this way in the past couple weeks. Two weeks ago she was bringing it home every night because she had so much work to do. And she was leaving it set without locking it and we were really connecting. Last night she brings it home and was very secretive with it. Locked it a couple times when she left the room. Kind of coincides with her being distant for the last 5 days or so. But also coincides with our discussion about my triggers. So did our discussion about my triggers "trigger" something in her and she contacted OM last Friday? Cause she sure was different Friday when she got home from work.

And one other thing. She's back to her old job and I know she's not nearly as busy as she was in her Temp assignment. She's also back to the building that she and OM worked in. If she's not as busy and she's in that building, I can see her sitting there thinking about him, and logically, contact being made. How do I combat that?

I guess if I look at it on a whole, she's getting better. I see her trying, but there's something blocking her from making that final step. Is it guilt? Or is it going for a period of time with NC and her feeling things for me, but then that pull is so strong she needs a hit so she contacts OM and it starts all over again?

I hear what you're saying about communicating. I'll think about what you've said.

[whatdidido]

One of these days I'll learn how to copy quotes...but, anyway.....when I said: "She thinks love is that fantasy love feeling. She's waiting for something like that to come. You think that she should just do these basic loving things that you have asked for. You are waiting for that to come."

I meant that both of you are wanting things to "just happen" without communication about it. You both think that each other should just know what to do and do it, end of story. Not taking into consideration there are feelings/stubborness/family history, etc. all involved.

Then I said, "I hear you as the one that hasn't made the choice yet. But, having you be the only one writing on the forums, I'm basing that just on your posts."

I said that because you keep saying you don't care one way or the other, that you feel like you are becoming the WAH, that you have Plan B always in the background, etc.


Now, I'll comment on what you said: "You said she's chosen to love me, but wouldn't you think that if that was the case, she'd do just a few small things that show me that? She knows how I feel about that stupid glass and those stupid undies, but she still keeps them."

Yes, you would think she would, but she is stubborn...you've said that...she has history you talked about....she has walls....big ones........

"And I'm confused by your comment that it seems like I haven't made my choice yet? I made my choice a long time ago. That's why I'm still here. But if she doesn't have ANY feelings like I do, why am I wasting my time?"

You are NOT wasting your time. It is NEVER wasting your time to save your marriage and your family. If you lose it, THAT would be a waste. I truly believe she has feelings like you do, but she is who she is...she hasn't read/learned about what love really is, and she is going to have to learn to show you the way you need to be shown. I'm sure at one time in your marriage she said, "If Hope truly loved me, he would be doing x, y, and z. OM does x, y, and z. He must love me." What I'm saying is that you both need to work at showing love the way you need it, and choosing it. She needs to work on it way more than you.

NOw.................if she is contacting OM, then I may change my advice and thoughts. If she is contacting him, I wouldn't be able to trust all that she is doing and understand it. But, all the more reason to talk to her and ask her to read the book because you NEED her to, go to Retrouvaille, etc. Talk about your mistrust of her at work......tell her you need her to reassure you. If she balks at that....she is still contacting him. Any wife that wants to repair her marriage, and is no longer contacting the OM, would do anything her H needs. She may need to talk it out, but in the end she will do what her H needs because she is the one that had the affair.

Don't email your thoughts to her, when the time comes. You guys need to sit and talk and not have other distractions around.

The laptop thing worries me. She's hiding something, Hope.

[Hope4us]

I get what you're saying WDID.

The laptop thing concerns me also. The way she's up and down so much makes me almost certain that there's some contact. It's like she has some feelings for me, and that scares her so she contacts OM just to justify her feelings, is down for a number of days because of that, starts to come around, we have some great days, she recognizes she has feelings for me, contacts him, it's groundhog day all over again.

So, what does DB say about that? Do I confront her about it? Or do I keep doing what I'm doing, showing her how we can be, what kind of guy I am and let her figure it out on her own? Thing is, if she's NOT talking to OM, but it's just her struggling with the gravity of the situation, then me accusing her of talking to OM will push her farther away. If she is talking to him on an infrequent basis, does she eventually figure it out?

I was talking to S16 last night. Asked him if he was ok if I took his mother to Fla in May. He looked at me and said "one last try huh?" Man is he smart.

Thing is, if I confront her right now, what's going to change in my path forward? My transfer back won't happen for at least 6 months, so if she came right out and said she's talking to OM, what recourse would I have? Can't afford where I'm living without her income. If we sold it on our own, we'd probably have to file bankruptcy because we'd not be able to get what we even owe on the thing. So we'd pretty much be living an in house separation, and I don't think that would accomplish anything except ensure our divorce. Right now we're doing things together, having fun when we go out of town, etc. So if I can stuff my feelings down and just LOVE her without expectations, when the time comes for the transfer, it'll be push time.

I didn't post about last night. She got home from work, I'd started dinner, we ate, went grocery shopping, had a good time doing it, S16 came home from an event at the school and was telling us about it and I caught her looking at me a couple times like, it's hard to explain, but looking at me like she was thinking about us.

I'll tell another story from last Friday night. Kind of shows what her personality is like. We got out of the car at the hotel and I always linger in the car until she gets out so I can lock the doors. It takes her longer to get out by the time she gets her purse around and stuff, but I go to get out, linger until she gets out, I lock the door and she says "I KNOW HOW TO LOCK A CAR DOOR". I asked her where that came from and she replied "It's like you don't think I know how to lock a car".

Now I never have come close to thinking that, but it seems like in her mind she thinks I don't think she can. And that would make sense why the A and OM were so attractive. She was doing things for herself. Like driving to another state by herself to be with him.

So if I push her on this, does it send the message I don't think she can figure it out on her own? Do I even want her back if it's forced in any way? Wouldn't our future be better if she figures it out on her own, given that she seems to feel like I think she can't do things on her own?

I can see how she would feel that way in our marriage. Not because I really think that, but because I used to do everything. I firmly believe, because I took care of everything, she thinks I don't think she is capable. So wouldn't it be best for me to let her figure this out on her own?

Lots to ponder. I know I need to get back to my logical self. When I think things through logically, I have more patience. When we have a really good stretch, I get these darn expectations and that sets my emotions a racin and then I'm disappointed when it's not as fast as I'd like.

[kat727]

She apparently can't figure this out on her own or she would have. You can't just leave her guessing. She probably thinks everything is fine and if you don't tell her otherwise, she will continue just as she has.

People don't often change on their own without some motivation. If you don't give her that motivation(and I am not talking about a trip to FL or a car)nothing will be any different. You both deserve better than that and so do your kids.

Take the plunge and have the talk. No more let's wait until this date or this happens. Do this now before you walk away.

kat

[Hope4us]

Thanks Kat. I know most people on here will disagree with what I'm doing, but I have to do this for myself. And at this point I don't really have a whole lot of options if we would split up now, so I've decided to just act "as if" things are going to make it, let her drive our interaction and then when I know more about this transfer, deal with it then.

So, I booked the trip to Fla in May. Go ahead and 2x4 me. Many reasons I did it and I understand everyone's frustrations with me, but it helps me in setting a goal when I know I've got something like this planned.

Now I do have one question on stragety that I'd like everyone's advise.

Yesterday W was in another one of her distant moods. Pretty quiet and it was weird because she wouldn't make eye contact with me. I was out of town for a meeting Wed night and Thurs morning so on my way back home, I sent her a TM and said "just wondered how your day was going. On my way home". No response. And that was just kind of the way the night was. Just really distant and no eye contact.

So I started thinking. That was a big mistake, but I did. W told me she was going out to lunch with another Admin yesterday. And your mind wanders. Was she really at lunch with the Admin or did she go have lunch with another guy and was lying to me about it and that's why she was distant and wouldn't make eye contact with me?

I have a way I could confirm whether she was at lunch with this other lady or not. I have a meeting today with some of the guys this other lady is the Admin for. I could very easily stick my head in her office and introduce myself and just mention that W told me they had lunch yesterday and I just wanted to introduce myself and then see what her reaction is.

Cause if W's lying to me about that, then I'm done. I will not accept any more lies.

Good idea or bad idea? It would be good to ease my fears and to figure out if I'm being played here. It would be bad if W was in fact at lunch with her and word gets back to W and she thinks I'm checking up on her. Not sure if I care or not whether W finds out I'm checking up on her, but seeing as how it's been almost a year since she told me she was NC with OM and she still hasn't said she's willing to try to make our marriage work, I don't think it's too bad of a thing to verify stuff.

What's everyone think?

[InLikeFlynn]

It's obviously nawing at you so go ahead and do it. Just make sure its not so obvious!!

[Hope4us]

Thanks Flynn. I decided against checking, but I did see this other admin and made a comment to W about it and she made some comment back that makes me believe she did have lunch with her.

W is a mess. The last couple days she's been DOWN and DISTANT. I already posted about Thurs and her not responding to me and how distant she was. Last night was WORSE. Around lunch time I sent her an IM telling her I was going to go out to dinner and she was welcome to join me if she'd like. "I think I'll skip it tonight, I wanted to do some cleaning".

Later in the day, after my meeting I stopped by her office. She was outside smoking with EGF. I walked up to the smokers hut and EGF was more friendly than W. Don't get me wrong, W talked to me, but EGF actually smiled at me and talked to me.

I went into W's office after her smoke was over and she was really distracted. While I was there she got an IM. She said it was her boss and made some comment about him but then a couple minutes later her phone rang and she didn't answer it.

Last night when she got home she was still pretty distant. I went out and when I got home she was sitting, slumped down in the couch and when I sat down she was staring outside and then down at the ground quite a bit. So I sat there for a few minutes and then went upstairs to watch t.v.

W slept on the couch last night.

So I have no idea what's up with her. Could be a number of things. Could be she has been NC for quite a while and then made contact and is depressed because OM rebuffed her. Could be that she's been in regular contact all along and is trying to go NC and she's in WD. Could be that she's recognized that she wants to make it work and is struggling with that. Could be that EGF is planting chit in her head and she's struggling with that.

So this morning we're up a little early to take S16 to a college visit. W comes up into the bedroom to get ready and is the nicest, sweetest thing you've ever seen. Today will be interesting.

And I thought I was on a roller coaster. She's one messed up person.