Truth darts are meant to penetrate the thickest of the fog -- when the affair is active. People caught up in adultery can't be "taught," but you can get short "truth darts" in sometimes. I tried to use them 2-3x per week or so.
Puppy
As an aside, I might have to hold off on any communication at all considering the legal issue. Once the custody/support order is in place, I might consider it. But I'm trying to reach a settlement, work through divorce, and get out for my daughter's sake.
Wish I'd had the evidence prior to her filing. I had the suspicions, and hindsight being 20/20 there are lots of things that should have clued me in.
But I chose to trust. Chose to keep myself blind. The person I married and fell in love with is m.i.a. right now. The person she is at the moment is completely different than anything I've ever seen from her. Lies, deceit, vindictiveness, bitterness, treachery. Before she always had a smile on her face and talked about fun things kids at her daycare did. I miss the old her.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Just an update. W brought my D over today to see me around 3:00pm. She did have an ulterior motive. She acted like she couldn't leave me unsupervised until OM arrived home, at which point she quit being depressing/mean and started being nice/happy and said she wanted to go see "his mom" because they had invited her to dinner.
I didn't even say anything. She was over there about an hour and a half, then came back and took my D with her. Just leaving it alone so I can get the Div over and done with.
To make sure she can't say anything about abuse I had two cameras recording the entire time (each frame date/time stamped), an audio recorder going in my pocket, and took video with another camera of my daughter as well as pictures.
Sad that I have to do that... but she's pushing the whole 'abuse' angle to the point where I literally have to cover my tail with all these measures just so that she can't say anything. She wants everyone to believe she's leaving an abusive situation... found a number to a Domestic Violence shelter (one of those where they are afraid to death of their husbands and need to live there) which made me laugh because she's pushing it to the point of ridiculousness trying to convince everyone that I'm an abuser rather than herself being an adulterer. If I'm so abusive... why was she coming here alone with me? Why was she leaving our D with me?
This is getting to the point where I've got to cut ties for my own safety at this juncture. Once she comes around, I'll have a discussion with her one day. But I can't afford to truly do anything except focus on myself using DB methods and not really pay attention to her.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Checking in. Part of me still wants to expose the affair to family/friends/etc. - but the other part of me is scared of the retaliation she'll take in the form of withholding my daughter, false allegations, etc. We have a custody hearing in less than 10 days if we can't work out some sort of agreement.
My W is doing what she is doing consciously, but it is so far away from what her core values were before the A that I keep wondering when she'll snap out of it. She's convinced her mother of the innocent nature of her relationship with OM, and I dare say even if I got them naked together on tape she'd sell her mother a bill of goods about a new form of Yoga that she'd be willing to accept.
I speak with my lawyer today hopefully, and will try and get on the same page about everything. He spent all last week listening to opposing counsel's side and is probably wondering if I'm the one who is full of crap. But I'm the one with documentation on everything.
As far as the abuse situation - my word against hers. No police reports, no police calls, no medical reports, no photographs, nothing. Just her saying I've done things and sympathetic family willing to testify to 'seeing' things. Sad that I have to take measures now to pre-empt allegations.
I'm not sure what actions to take, and that means it is probably better to take none atm. Exposing the affair further has the risk of backfiring, but leaving the secret intact also seems to give W more reason to put me through the ringer on abuse, etc. as the reason she's leaving.
Hindsight being 20/20, all the warning signs that led me here are plain as day. I don't understand why I willfully blinded myself to the truth... outside of the trust I placed in my W.
It is harder to feel betrayed when I had a one-night stand back in April, but at the same time I confessed immediately and begged forgiveness. She said she forgave me, and our relationship seemed to improve for a while. My emotional needs weren't getting met prior to what I did, not a justification by any means, but I understand the feeling. I also understand my W's emotional needs weren't being met by me. But at the same time - I wasn't this horrible jerk. I was working full-time, going to school, handling everything around the house, etc.
Yet she is 100% completely focused on blaming me for everything.
Well... does anyone have any suggestions or advice?
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Same thing happened to me. Wife was having affair but had me removed from house by police and charged me with physical abuse . Not one documented incident , her parents were at our house every single day to put our children on the bus . They would have saw something . I was getting closer to the truth and she panicked and now I'm out . Tales of the affair have been mounting and I filed for divorce . She dropped charges because she had no case . I exposed her affair to the OM's wife to level the playing field . I hear he has since dumbed her . Too F---ing bad. My therapist told me that they feel guilt and will try and defelct the guilt onto you , don't let her . I was a mother and father to our children while she pursued her Ph.D . Did all the housework too . Now , like you , I'm a monster . Karma baby , karma .
Same thing happened to me. Wife was having affair but had me removed from house by police and charged me with physical abuse . Not one documented incident , her parents were at our house every single day to put our children on the bus . They would have saw something . I was getting closer to the truth and she panicked and now I'm out . Tales of the affair have been mounting and I filed for divorce . She dropped charges because she had no case . I exposed her affair to the OM's wife to level the playing field . I hear he has since dumbed her . Too F---ing bad. My therapist told me that they feel guilt and will try and defelct the guilt onto you , don't let her . I was a mother and father to our children while she pursued her Ph.D . Did all the housework too . Now , like you , I'm a monster . Karma baby , karma.
Luckily there are no police reports. Just innuendo by her attorney that there are "witnesses" who will testify to seeing bruising, etc. on her.
I suppose I'm just wrestling with what to do. I've mentioned my knowledge of my W's activities to her, but she's come up with 15 different reasons for why she was spending the night at the next door neighbor's house.
She isn't going to admit to it, and because I've quit arguing about it I guess she thinks I've been convinced. I'm not retarded however, and I just wish she'd tell me the truth.
What do you say to someone? There is too much evidence to deny, there is too much history here to pretend all of a sudden it is just an innocent thing. She's worried about making excuses for the single night... but she's neglecting to remember the countless arguments, her behavior, etc. over the latter half of 2008 with OM.
All of a sudden, when I hire a PI for the purposes of proving adultery - she runs off playing James Bond, swapping cars, running back next door to the house she just left, and then gets busted... all of a sudden it was just a coincidence and she was really going there to spy on me...
Funny thing, some of her friends/family believe that. That isn't the first explanation she's had about why she was there. I'm sure it won't be the last.
So... anybody got any advice? I feel like I'm giving tacit approval by allowing her to go over there while I watch our D, but on the other hand - I don't want her to withhold my D because I refuse to accept her going over to OM's house. When a custody order is in place, it won't be so bad. Just hate that we are getting to that point.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I have two sons from a prior marriage. My ex-W abandoned them, and I have full custody. My W basically came into our lives, has been a part of their lives for 5 years, and they started calling her mom, etc.
While her EA/PA was going on last year, she became more negative, quit telling them she loved them, and since our separation, she has not really engaged them in conversation, told them she loved them, etc. although she claims to want to be a part of their lives, she doesn't really show it except when she random text-messages me to see if I've done certain things for them.
We had a phone call recently where I told her that I wanted her to focus on our D, and leave my Ss to me. It breaks my heart to see them being abandoned again because of her A, but during this period of legal drama, I'm wondering what steps I should take in regards to her relationship with them?
Initially, she wouldn't speak to them, would walk in and out without saying bye, etc. When I argued with her about it - she bought them ice cream, and spent a lot of time with them the following day. After that, it was back to ignoring them, etc. - so I just feel like their lives will be better off without her while she's acting this way.
Then there is that part of me that says she has been more of a mother than their biological mother prior to the A. But ultimately, I think I'm understanding that while her A is going on she isn't thinking about their best interests, nor even our D's best interests.
I can't control her being involved in our D's life at the moment, but in terms of my Ss I'm starting to consider cutting her off completely there. Not to be mean - but because:
a. She hasn't shown any interest b. The situation is negative for them
Any thoughts on how to handle the relationship with stepchildren while a Div is in progress?
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
A lawyer needs to advise you on what to do with your kids in a legal sense.
A counselor needs to be involved with your sons. Both for you and advice on what's in their best psychological interest, and for your sons to have someone to help them through this. My stomach flipped when I thought about how they will be feeling like they have been abandoned twice now.
Will do that. She has no legal rights to them, just not sure how best to approach that so that she doesn't feel like I'm using them to hurt her, because I'm not. I just want what is best for them.
I also started wearing my wedding ring again Sunday for the first time since confirming OM. I'm not sure why I chose to do so... whether I feel faithful to the marriage, or what my goal is. I just felt the urge to wear it, and I'm sure it'll come off and on a few more times as I continue along the roller coaster of emotions.
I asked W's brother some questions about whether they had any thoughts/opinions on me fighting for the marriage or counseling, but they are nonresponsive on those issues. Seems like they want to keep circling the wagons to "protect" W behind her lawyer instead of focusing on the fact that she's making decisions which have long-reaching consequences in the lives of my S(8),S(7), and D(1).
It is hard not having too many folks to talk to... I moved about 300 miles from any blood relatives, so my In-laws were pretty much the only family I had here.
Was glad to have found this place so that I could validate what I was doing... was taking DB steps based on common sense from my last D without even knowing what DBing was. Haven't begged, pleaded, cried, or anything since this started.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Still talking with b.i.l. I get mixed signals, like he's sure there is an A going on, but he doesn't want to get mixed up in the legal issue. So he doesn't discuss it.
That being said, I sent an email saying I hoped we could find a common front on something, such as counseling for purposes of communication. I'd hope they would consider pushing that to W so that it would help our D(1) in the long run by getting us to work together, even if just in a businesslike sense for our D(1). Asked them to consider pushing it in consideration of supporting the Div since it is being bankrolled by m.i.l.
He did tell me that they aren't accepting anything from either me or W as fully truthful because there are two wildly separate stories. I just rely on the fact that I've always been honest with them, even about things I'm not proud of.
So... not sure if that communication is helpful or not, but it gives me insight and I don't give up any legal information, just my feelings, thoughts, concerns, etc. about W's behavior and my desire to work on the M. I'm hoping that they push C just so that we can get some issues out of the way, and hopefully cut down on the lies/hysteria that W is spewing everywhere.
AFAIK he is good about keeping confidence, and I like to have an advocate because m.i.l. is pretty crazy when it comes to lashing out, much like my W. Instead of accepting criticism, they prefer to counter-attack. Unlike me, I do my mea culpas and then continue forward in life.
So... as far as my W, I've pretty much gone dark. I send a txt message each afternoon to ask about my D(1), and beyond that not discussing anything with her.
While she is steeped in an A that she still isn't being honest about, there isn't much else I can do. Exposure may/may not backfire, she isn't fully aware of what I have, and she's probably thinking she can lie her way through a court thing - not realizing that judges and lawyers aren't emotionally attached to her and can see through b.s.
Me? I literally saw OM sneaking out the back of my house on 12/29 and believed my W when she said no one was there. I loved, trusted, and put a lot of faith in my W - and it doesn't feel good at the moment.
Otherwise... this is all (fairly) fresh, and I'm doing my best to move forward. Bombed a test this morning, have one this evening.
Trying not to go under with her... still wearing my wedding ring... in a confused state at the moment. She's done so much to destroy the trust and burn any bridges on the road back to reconciliation, yet for some reason I'm still hopeful. That will fade... and eventually when she does come back I think it might be too late. I hope not... but if I've moved on in life I'm not sure what my state of mind will be then.
I am starting to feel more of the hurt. The pain. The betrayal. I suppose I'm past the 'shock' stage. Now I'm putting things into perspective to begin distancing.
Does anyone have any ideas on how I should continue? I'm figuring that since she takes anything I say and twists it to her lawyer (I asked to take our D(1) to visit family during spring break, my attorneys get a allegation that I "threatened to take the baby out of town where she can't get to her.") I should probably remain dark, deal with her through lawyers, and just focus on GAL and positive relationships with my children.
I will probably still see W on weekends for a few hours at least, but I'm going to stop making small talk. I'm going to smile, nod, listen, all those sorts of things. But I'm done reaching out.
Advice?
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
