Que Sera, Sera - Whatever Will Be, Will Be

[lemonsnap]

Greek and/or Coach,
If you're out there, I'd love to get your feedback on my situation.
Greek, I've seen the posts you've done on some other threads regarding the "other" perspective, and I've found them invaluable. I welcome any insight into what my H might be experiencing emotionally right now, since he's not in a position to convey it to me himself.

A few things that you and Coach mentioned really struck me and relate very much to my situation:

Coach wrote "The better option is to leave because the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving." Truth. I know - this was me when I left.

Coach also wrote "Make yourself so strong of mind, body, heart and spirit that you love her enough to let her be her own person." Key. I know - this is what my H did...and I came home.

I'll try to track you down on other threads, but if you can make it here, I'd really appreciate your insight.

Thank you!

[lemonsnap]

I just co-signed an application for an apartment with my H so that he can move out.

Sigh.

Since he's been a full-time student up until this point (he plans to take some time off to work full times starting at the end of this quarter) he doesn't have the ability to apply for an apartment on his own yet. He's told me that he will remove me from the apartment once he is working.

Talk about a bittersweet moment. I spent a few weeks cajoling and trying to get him to stay, but he's 100% decided. So that's my loving detachment/180. (Try to0 support him in his decision and let him go, with the hopes that it will help him/us in the long term.

Who knows.

I did have to tell him, calmly, that I am doing this because I know he doesn't have any other option, but that I needed him to know that I'm NOT signing it because I support his leaving, but because I know he needs to do this and can't do it on his own.

Ugh. Did I just give him a completely mixed message?
I think I just gave MYSELF a mixed message.

It was one of those rock and hard place decisions.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

[Greek]

Coach is much better than I am at addressing big pic items. I'm a detail girl so I think I would be more helpful to you if you gave me some finely tuned questions...then give me a day to turn over the soil on it "Know thyself"...that's just how I am. But I cannot resist a call for help so ask away.

Cheers ~

[kassie]

lemonsnap,

Tough place to be, I admire your ability to be strong in the face of such a challenge. I think the mixed message was in your head - if you are trying to make a change then it will feel different for you.

You are being supportive of his decision - that counts for a lot if he is noticing and I am sure he does. You were clear about the message - no mixed signals there. Be strong, hang in there. You are probably too young to recall Jonathon Livingston Seagull's book about love meaning you let the person go and if it real love they will return.

I don't mean to place doubts but I don't believe the PTSD stuff about relationships - it is applicable to abuse - affairs are not considered abuse - just poor judgment and hurtful. He had plenty of time to think things through before M you. Poor decision on his part - maybe. But having said that - if one or two people make a poor choice it doesn't mean you can't make it right again.

[JDOllie]

You are doing great!

I struggle with stuff like this - I felt like I was "enabling" W when she moved out; there is that panicked feeling.

However, hindsight being 20/20 - I know that the separation period will be just the thing needed to turn things around, or it'll be just the thing needed to allow us to detach.

You did NOT send a mixed message - HE chose to leave, you simply are helping him not be in a place he doesn't want to be in.

It's so hard to realize that clinging and hanging on to your H will drive him away. My suggestion to you is this:

DON'T be available. If he calls, let it go to VM, and call back later. Send a text if it is something short and sweet. Start going out, working out, make appointments with friends, etc. Shoot, go to the library for a couple of hours, worst case. I think it's OK to have a friendly conversation as long as HE starts it.

Let him know what divorce is going to be like!

[lemonsnap]

Thank you all so much for the encouragement. Reading your comments is one of the uplifting parts of my day.

Greek - I'm honored! Thank you for responding to my request. Of course, now my mind has gone completely blank. I'm sure I'll come up with a few more specific items. I guess I'm just curious about the process for you - the things that you found most difficult, what (if anything) was beneficial about your separation, etc. I know those are pretty general, though! Bear with me. I'm not sure if my mind can do finely tuned in its current state...

Kassie - Thank you for your feedback.

I think the mixed message was in your head - if you are trying to make a change then it will feel different for you.

I agree. Inside, I know my heart and mind aren't lined up (because my mind is DB-ing and my heart is begging him not to go). Over time, I know head/heart will meet somewhere.

JD -

I felt like I was "enabling" W when she moved out.

I think this sums up my current feelings perfectly. I need to let him go, but I don't want to encourage his behavior. Confusing! Thanks for helping me see things clearly.

Yesterday evening went pretty well, all things considered. I had a good yoga session, although pearlharbr, after your comment about yoga making you feel sort of queasy sometimes, I felt like that during class! Ah, well. It's good for me to get those emotions out.

I planned to take the bus home, but H left a voicemail offering to drive down and pick me up. We ended up going grocery shopping, which was a good chance for me to practice another 180.
Normally I do most of the shopping. I have control issues mixed with financial control issues, so I like to be very "in charge" and tend to dominate those areas, even with groceries (geez.) So I got things that I wanted, but also just let H get lots of things that he wanted - with no comments about prices, choices, healthy vs. bad, etc.

H seemed to be studying the grocery store a lot more than normal (preparing himself for shopping alone, I suppose.) He had some questions about where to find items, so I just calmly answered them without getting anxious or reacting.

We ran into a classmate of his, and he only introduced me by name, not by saying "this is my W." I let it slide. Normally I would probably have made a comment.

We watched a movie last night and even laughed a bit together. I felt like it was the first time that I actually had a PMA around him without completely faking it. I've got a long way to go on this front, but last night it felt good.

The hard part was this morning when the topic of my sister-in-law's pregnancy came up. H asked when the baby was due, and when I told him, he said, "Be sure to remind me when it's born, so that I can send a gift." I just said okay, and then had to walk away so that he didn't see my face.

Are these comments just to test me?

[JDOllie]

First off - stop overthinking everything. It will be the ruin of you.

Here is our famous quote:
"Don't try to rationalize the irrational."

Your H is not in a right frame of mind right now - it is very likely that you cannot say or do anything to change that frame of mind. I spent hundreds of hours talking to my W - saying things from the core of my soul, and I doubt if she heard 20 minutes of it.

You can simply be you - when it first started for me, nearly 2 years ago, I started doing some DBing when I didn't know what it was. I backed way off, got real quiet, stayed busy, and pretty much left W alone. I remember I went down and watched a movie once (Lady in the Water). The next morning W said she wanted to try again, and GET THIS: she said she FORCED herself not to come down and be with me and watch the movie. Talk about irrational!

Of course, I blew that good will by clinging and pushing, and temperature-taking. The worse she got, the harder I pushed and pulled, and it just went downhill.

Also, don't listen to stuff they say - you have to steel yourself to the fact that, in their mind, they are moving on, etc. But I guarantee that their feelings don't just shut off - they just become very good at smashing them.

When you are fun, and happy, and easy to get along with - and not emotional, and sobbing, and clinging - you become an attractive person. Work on YOURSELF - not him.

If I had known this 2 years ago, I would probably be in a great relationship with my W - but unfortunately, it's been 2 months - after she had started in with OM.

Let me also encourage the going dark once again - I don't know if you need to start with DARK, but at least half-dim. Do not be at beck and call. I know it's hard, I remember my stomach being twisted in knots!

[lemonsnap]

For those who have already gone through a separation, I've got some questions. I haven't made a decision yet, but would appreciate your advice and feedback.

My H will be moving out sometime soon - he's got some apartments in mind and will leave as soon as one opens up.

What did you do regarding practical matters of separating?

H doesn't plan to take any furniture. I feel like he wants a clean start.

We share 1 car. I feel like I should keep the car. He thinks we can trade it off every once in a while so that he can run errands, etc. Practically, that makes sense (try grocery shopping for a week or two with a bike or on the bus), although I feel like since he's the one leaving, he shouldn't get to use these things that belong to "us."

Same goes for the computer.

Toaster...

I'll let him have the espresso machine because I've stopped drinking coffee.

How did you deal with this?

When I brought it up briefly (as a practical matter) once, H reacted to the questions as if I were more interested in the material items than in our R. I assured him it had nothing to do with $ or stuff, but was just so that I could plan ahead and know what to expect.

We haven't discussed it at all since. Given his first reaction, I hesitate to make a big deal out of it because he's probably expecting me to be controlling.

I would appreciate hearing your personal experiences with this!

Thanks.

[pearlharbr]

Just popping my head in for a minute as a break so I need to keep this short.

First of all, I second everything my friend JD said. It's hard, but it is in your best interest to stop overanalyzing and just concentrate on living your life for yourself. I was guilty of doing that too at first but found I was able to get off the emotional roller coaster when I started to think about me and me alone.

Regarding practical matters, I'm in a different situation. We have a lot of stuff so I just set out some of the household items for xBF to take. I gave him the basics, a set of dishes, couple pots and pans, couple sets of sheets, his old comforter, etc. Just the things I didn't think I would need because I am planning to leave most of that stuff behind when I move. He is taking the guest bed, one of the tvs, and an extra dining room set (we have four, long story) but didn't mention any of the sofa/chairs. (I did give him the old stuff or the ugly stuff. Hey, I'm not going to furnish his love nest with my nice things!) I have no idea how he's getting the rest of that but I really don't care either. I don't want him to spend too much on buying duplicates of things I intend to leave anyway, but ultimately it's his responsibility to furnish his new life because these are the consequences of his actions. And it's not like he can't afford it.

I know your H is in school so you're probably not in the same financial situation. I would say you should keep the car if you're the one paying for it and he's the one who wants to leave. It's up to you if you want to be nice and let him use it for errands occasionally. And you should keep whatever else you use regularly like the computer! I'm not sure if you've thought of how you're going to handle the finances. We had that discussion the day I kicked him out. Made sure I knew who was going to be responsible for the bills and if any other changes would be made. Perhaps you need to sit down and make a financial plan that will include a budget for buying new household items. Don't make a big deal out of it but it is a practical matter that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later. He needs to know that he's going to be on his own and needs to deal with practical matters.

[lemonsnap]

First off - stop overthinking everything. It will be the ruin of you.

JD - thanks for calling me out on this. Yes, I overanalyze things. It's been hard to stop myself from doing that. I appreciate your advice and really value your experience. I'm listening!

Pearl - Thank you for visiting me and for your feedback. I think it's just reassuring to me to hear from someone who's already gone through that stage of separation - to know I'll get through it, you know?

I've decided I'm going to try to post here once a day or once every few days, nothing else. I'm going to get DR and read it. I've already got DB. While this forum is an amazing source of support and a good outlet for me, sometimes it just feeds into the overthinking tendency that I've got.

I'll be here, and will still come visit you all too. Just trying to focus on ME!