Expose the Affair?

[sgctxok]

I don't know. Things haven't worked out for my M. Don't know that anything would have changed that though. My main regret is that I did put up with too much cra* for too long. I should have kicked him out sooner, since he was being so disrespectful and toxic really in his behavior. I think every sitch is prob. different. My guess would be a good way to go maybe is to DB for a period of time, but if things are worse, not better, go for the puppy approach. But I also think it took me a very long time to get the strength and self confidence to DB more puppy-style so that's a factor too.

Hey, SG, just wanted to say hi! also b/c haven't seen you around much. Miss ya! Karen

Hi...thanks! I obviously miss y'all too!


It goes to show there is no onesizefitsall advice.


I did miss something in puppy's descriptions...I didn't realize he gave the fetching mrs p some opportunities to end it first...and I think setting it up as a part of the consequences in advance, could be very effective. Of course, then you have to follow through, which is what many of you did.

[sgctxok]

However, if I were the one having the affair, and I were exposed, and humiliated, I would never go back to the marriage.

With the greatest of respect sgctxok, unless you were in this position I don't think you really KNOW what you would do. One of the big things you see on these boards is people saying that they had always said if their S cheated they would be gone.....and yet when it happened they have arrived here wanting to save the M. Until it happens one never knows.

Absolutely true.

[sgctxok]

SG, SG, SG . . . where to begin . . . there is SO much here that I disagree with.

IT’S ALWAYS BETTER TO TAKE THE HIGH ROAD
The high road is about restoring the relationship to a loving one. Exposing the affair is not the high road.

That's your opinion. I happen to disagree. There is nothing "low road" about telling the truth, especially to a predator's spouse, who has the right to know so that he/she can make their own decisions.

The highest road would involve requesting your partner to give up the other person, working to meet their needs they felt were lacking, making yourself more attractive to them, winning them over.

Wouldn't that be lover-ly. Except that the cheating partner is fogged out and full of deceit at this point, and you'd be making your request of someone who categorically does NOT have the marriage's best interests at heart in their current state!

Also, while they are wayward and actively involved in an affair, they are in no condition, physiologically, to allow you to meet their needs -- they will NOT notice your changes. Most counselors and experts on infidelity agree on this fact.

ACT OF WAR
Your spouse is very likely to perceive being ‘outed’ as an act of war. And now that everyone knows, so why not continue the affair, and by the way, let me tell you how bad MY spouse is, and why the new person is so much better.

I really don't care WHAT the cheating spouse perceives it as. I don't advocate making your decisions, strategies and tactics based on how the cheating, deceitful spouse is going to perceive them. That's enmeshment. WHATEVER you decide to do (and I respect people who have strong opinions on both sides of the "expose-or-not-expose" spectrum, including some like Sandi who are somewhere in the middle), I do NOT recommend that you do it from any other standpoint than WHAT DO YOU FEEL THE "RIGHT" THING TO DO IS IN THE SITUATION. Trying to factor in "Will my spouse be angry with me?" is a losing battle. Will an addict consider it an "Act of War" if you take their drugs or alcohol away from them?? Will a drunk consider it an "Act of War" if you do whatever is necessary to take their car keys away from them and prevent them from driving in their current condition??

You're damned right they will -- and I care not one whit.

Besides, most formerly-wayward spouses report that being exposed DID ruin their affair buzz, not strengthen it.

MAKES YOU LOOK WEAKER
Exposing the affair is actually a bold act, most likely coming from a place of strength…however, the person talking about it is often seen as whiny, weak…highlighting that they were ‘left’.

I'm really not sure where you're getting this opinion from. I've never seen a WAW or FWAW on the boards describe that they thought their exposing spouse was weak. I've seen them be LIVID, but never questioning whether their spouse was weak? Now, I do think that exposure should always come in conjunction with confrontation of the wayward spouse -- you both confront your spouse and you expose them to others -- and if you just expose without confronting, I can see how THAT would be perceived as weak. And I do see people on the boards who try to get the OM/OW's spouse to do their "dirty work" for them, instead of standing up to their cheating spouse on their own.

ALIENATES SPOUSE
The spouse being exposed is often alienated from a child, and sometimes alienated at their job, church, etc…they places they need to be connected to restore and heal in the relationship. This COULD work for the spouse doing the exposing, but could work against as well.

Yes, they are, and I say that's a GOOD thing. Didn't you just start a second thread bemoaning how overly "accepting" society is of adultery and infidelity??? Well, what's wrong with a little good-old-fashioned STIGMA applied to a cheating spouse who's destroying their family? True friends, and good family, should be ready to help not just exert pressure, but to help a repentant cheater back on the road to reconciliation, and so should their betrayed spouse.

UNFAIR BURDEN TO THE PERSONS BEING TOLD
Not everyone wants to know this news. Folks don’t really want to have to take sides. They will feel they are being asked to take sides, and many will. Oddly enough, it might not be YOUR side.

Oh please. Are you saying that another man/woman's spouse may not WANT to know the truth about what their wife/husband is doing? You have an OBLIGATION to tell them, an overwhelming majority WOULD want to know, and it's then up to them and their support system to decide what they want to do with that information.

Ignorance is bliss, eh?

AFTER the LAST RESORT
If you decide to do it, it should definitely be an AFTER THE LAST RESORT technique.

Experience shows that if you ARE going to expose, that it be done sooner rather than later, before the affair is deeply entrenched emotionally. If you want to try the LRT before you do that, I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but once an affair is 6 months or more entrenched, I would generally NOT advocate exposure anymore.

SG, I luv ya to death, you know that, but you are simply misguided on this, or at least you're coming at this from a TOTALLY different premise that I simply don't accept. To me (and a lot of others, judging from the response so far) you either see infidelity as an addiction or you don't. If you DO (and I do, and it's been proven medically -- the wayward spouse's brain actually looks different on a CAT scan!), then it follows that the first order of business is to separate the addict from the source of their addiction, but whatever means necessary. Pussyfooting around and letting them walk all over you and your boundaries is not only not effective, but it destroys the self-esteem and sometimes even the emotional health of the betrayed spouse.

Affairs are horribly destructive. They take their toll on the family's finances, on the wayward spouse's (and potentially the betrayed spouse's) physical health thru the spread of STDs, and -- saddest of all -- on BOTH family's children. I believe that we should try to shorten them by any reasonable means possible, all the while working to make ourselves the more attractive option, GALing, and taking extra good care of any involved children.

To do any less is a dereliction of marital and parental duty.

Puppy

My premise is 'save the marriage' but not just to stop the affair but to create and grow love....so the marriage is really good, one both folks want to be in. So in that light it comes as after the last resort.

Again for all of those who are posting that it works there are so many for whom in ends in divorce or bad marriages.


And if you choose to do it, you have to be ok with the consequences of your telling...the fact everyone will know...and the possibility of the marriage ending over that fact. So here is my next premise......and it has more to do with a newbie and with doing this early on....there are many folks who really can't handle that fallout.

Both sides are valid...just wanted to put this 'out there'.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

So here is my next premise......and it has more to do with a newbie and with doing this early on....there are many folks who really can't handle that fallout.

SG, I know you've brought this up to me before, but I'm either just not getting -- or maybe just not BUYING -- the distinction you're making with newbies. Why would someone new to their sitch be any LESS desiring of the truth, and the best available options (no matter which one they end up deciding upon) that are available to them?

If anything, what I hear over and over and over again on these boards from folks is something along the lines of "I wish I had known earlier on," or "I wish I had taken a firmer stance earlier on."

Couple that with the added destruction (emotional, financial, even health) that happens with every passing month of an affair, and why WOULDN'T you want to lay out all of the options for busting it as soon as possible for the newbies??

Different philosophies, I guess. I've never been a "you can't handle the truth" guy. Strong people can handle it, and weak people need to hear it.

Puppy

[saffie]

Every one of us is different. We just can't generalise.

Some folks can't handle dealing with all this stuff in a confrontational way in the beginning and they need to grow and learn to depend on themselves....others need to hear it all and know what they are up against right from the first chance.....

There are no rights or wrongs in how one handles the situation once you know where you stand....although I do agree with puppy that the truth is ALWAYS the best route to go. What you do with the truth is the big question IMO. I always would want the chance to be told the truth....no-one has the right to with hold that from me, whether it be by out right lies or by ommission.

[runningoutoftime]

If a spouse really wants to leave they are going to leave regardless of exposure or not. (Although... my husband was dead set on leaving and paid 20K to D me!!! And then stopped it...)

I agree that everyone's situation is different, but I personally felt there was positives for me in exposing the affair and never thought twice about it.

For one, I didn't like the idea that he was telling everyone he was D me because "we didn't get along" or some other nonsense. (Yes, the marriage was not perfect, but everything escalted with the A, and until I had proof of the A, I didn't realize he was "baiting me" to make things worse and validate this decision).

The next reason, and this I felt was more important, by setting off the bomb I felt I was "getting it out of the way." I knew if I didn't set it off, it would just be this big elephant in the room. And it might even just build up larger. There would just be this big ugly secret.

So... I exploded it. Yes, and it was REALLY bad. My H was incredibly furious and it was super ugly. That night I jammed a chair in the door and the next day I was so paranoid I had the locks changed. I refused to see him for days because I was afraid he might kill me. Seriously.... but eventually he calmed down. Exposing it didn't stop the A, but it got the elephant out of the room. I felt it got some of the ugliness out, and allowed us to look at the situation with more clarity and move on. Quite honestly, I can't imagine not exposing it and how uncomfortable that would be. Just sitting on this huge secret. It just would feel so "unresolved"...

Also, once it was exposed no one had to worry about the response. It happened, everyone responded in their own way, and in time things settled. I felt it was much easier to move forward this way. I even think it made it easier for me to begin developing a friendship with him. He wouldn't have to worry about me having some secret I could expose or hold over his head. And this forced him to look at what he was doing, how others would respond, and deal with it.

[JCJ]

In my case, H left me to pursue the affair. I didn't know that at the time. I think he couldn't handle the guilt and knew that I would soon find out if he stayed. It also allayed his fears that he was having an affair. You can't call it an affair if you've left someone right? ...

I would guess I really knew in my heart 6 months after he left but refused to believe it. I 'waited for solid proof' and I didn't get that till he moved in with her. Even then I had to assume because I only could see via face book and even that was tenuous - there was no announcement.

I of course wanted to believe the best in my h, that he would never cheat. I buried my head and the relationship continued to develop without any consequences. I have to add here that his family said they suspected that he had someone else but I wouldn't believe them. They never actually came out and told me when they actualyy knew. In any case, I was so loyal to my h and wouldn't believe he could do that. To anyone out there I would say take those blinkers off. There is no good in ignoring something that is happening. If I had known there was something going on I would have changed my tactics completely.

I have to say that when I had my suspicions about him moving in with her I still did not truly believe it. I called a DB coach and she just said to me, if you suspect it is probably true and then advocated and helped me compose an email telling him very calmly that I knew he was having an affair. Even now he still has not admitted it to me, even in response to my email. We meet and it is not discussed. I had no one to expose to as we do not have any mutual friends together any longer as so much time had passed - a year.

I know he feels guilt, I can see that, but has faced no repercussions to make him admit what he has done. I buried my head and did not 'expose' the affair - even if just to him and it hasn't worked for me so far.

[theoden]

Great topic....

DB is premised on making the road home smooth, and having your spouse pissed off at you and other people pissed off at your spouse makes a harder transition to reconciliation. It's a nuclear option (I thinked I coined that phrase on these boards) and it complicates things.

On the other hand, it seems that people who REALLY want out, don't care if there is exposure or not.

Here are some interesting things I noticed in this discussion:

1. Exposure in some cases, to teenage kids, helped the situation. Having to face your kids is a whole different issue. Funny, most of our WAS claim the affair isn't wrong, yet they are in sheet terror of being exposed.

2. The affair, in all cases, thrives in secrecy. The unfaithful spouse will seek out "permission givers" to support their affair, or at least provide euphemistic "non-judgement, we are all on journey" rhetoric. Once it's public they will have to face people who might not think their affair is a good idea. They will face reality.

3. In my situation the affair exploded when the OM got outed. He ran with his tail between his legs back to his wife and dropped my wife like a hot potato. In retrospect, I wish it happened earlier. Turns out I didn't have the endurance to DB, and I used up all my energy too early in the crisis. If it got exposed earlier, I think I would have more energy to re-connect with my wife. It got exposed later in the game and by that time I was embittered and angry, which was not making me look like the better alternative.

Interestingly there is another "affair rescue" site that takes "protecting the heart" of the LBS seriously. They say that if the affair drags on too long the REAL danger to the marriage ending will come from the LBS. Unless you DB FLAWLESSLY (which is incredibly hard and lonely), it's too easy to slip into DB-Doormat mode which will lead to extreme anger and bitterness on the part of the LBS. That site also recommends EXTREME exposure and setting up "safe houses" for the LBS and/or their children to stay in so they can not be exposed to the affair and get embittered. They advocate NO contact until the WAS returnd to the marriage.

4. My wife, to this day, can't seem to admit the affair was wrong (it blew up over a year ago). The exposure was in a quasi Matthew 18 manner. It wasn't public. The church was discrete. I think, perhaps a more public exposure might have been more effective, but since she was no longer in the church they didn't go after her, they went after OM.

A friend once told me one of the reasons I am having discipline issues with my children is that I am living with an unrepentant adulterer and they have no idea what happened. The dark secret effects EVERYTHING. My children's desire to emulate their mom's free-wheeling non-Christian "self-actualization" is not informed by the fact that their mother cheated on me and tried to replace me with OM in her bed and in my children's life. They don't see the dark forces that lie beneath the "turkish delight" of new freedom.

Interesting food for thought.

[Hope4us]

I agree whole heartedly Theoden.

My telling OMW pretty much ended OM's interest, even though W hung onto the A for a number of months later, even though OM continued to make up excuses for not meeting her.

Then my S16 put a whole lot of reality into my W in a big hurry. W was livid (and is still a little mad almost a year later) that I told the kids, but it's hard to look at your grown son's and be ok with what you've done.

The fantasy of her A was what I'm sure was so attractive in it. It was like she was getting away with something, and the trips out of town to see him must have been a huge turn on. After exposure, when your son is asking what you're doing everytime you leave the house, it has a way of putting a damper on the fantasy.

Don't know if our marriage will make it or not, but I think we at least have a chance that we didn't have a year ago.

And I understand completely what you're saying about your W not admitting her A was wrong. My W also. I still haven't got an "I'm sorry". I was told by my MC that if that was a deal breaker for me, I might as well hang it up, because it's very common for waywards to not feel sorry for their actions. I told him that was hard to take and he said "do you want to be right or do you want to be married?" So now I need to decide if its a deal breaker or not.

I'm lucky, my boys are very smart and "get it". No discipline issues so far, but I don't think they'll ever think of their mother the same way again. And that breaks my heart.

Nice post.

[runningoutoftime]

DB is premised on making the road home smooth, and having your spouse pissed off at you and other people pissed off at your spouse makes a harder transition to reconciliation. It's a nuclear option (I thinked I coined that phrase on these boards) and it complicates things.

It definitely makes it bumpy at the time of the bomb, but at some point, before reconcilation can fully occur, the affair will need to be dealt with. My personal opinion is the sooner the better. Of course, if someone wants to use it as an excuse to leave or stay away from the marriage it's a very convenient one. And it will be used. However, if someone wants an excuse to leave they will find it. No matter how carefully you walk on eggshells (and I became a "master" at walking on eggshells!), there's always an excuse...

A friend once told me one of the reasons I am having discipline issues with my children is that I am living with an unrepentant adulterer and they have no idea what happened.

Most discipline problems are due to inconsistent rules. Also, "risk takers" tend to require extra effort, and can create more challenge.