B just called and I had a chance to talk with her about my thoughts and where I am. I told her that I didn't have any anger or issues with her and that all I want is for her to be happy. I told her that I think she's remarkable person and a good, loving mother to S2,and that when I disagree with her on things that she please remember that it doesn't mean I don't respect her as his mother - it just means that sometimes we have different ideas about what is best for him. I told her that these last few months have helped me to learn a lot about control and taking responsibility for different aspects of my life - and I also told her that I'm much happier now than I've been in a long time. A large part of the reason I'm happier, I told her, was that I no longer confuse control and the arrogance of control with the idea of being a strong person. I had, for years, thought that my strength came from my ability to control things...even to control people...but I now see just how destructive it can be to be controlling - to want control - and to think that I ever know what's best for another person. Other people have to find out what's best for them themselves...and my fears, and the control that comes out of those fears, should never interfere with someone being who they want to be - or doing what they have to do.
I then mentioned to her that my moving out of this house marks the end of our shared hopes and dreams that we had when we first moved into the house - and that while it was a struggle for me to let those go, I finally have, and feel comfortable with her decision to move on - and mine as well. I asked her if we could work toward becoming friends enough to ensure that we always put our son first, and she agreed.
At the end of our conversation she thanked me for telling her what I did, asked me if was still going to a therapist (she still thinks that I am in therapy for anger management - even though my T quickly determined that I don't have an anger management issue at all - she doesn't know about this determination - and I keep the content of my sessions private - so she doesn't know that a lot of what we talk about it just letting go of her and finding ways to be more affirmative in myself and in my life...my T also seems to like it that I write for a living...so we talk about the creative process a lot too), and then said goodbye. Only once did she start snipping - but it was only because one of her words had cut off due to a spotty cell phone connection - and I answered her in a way that seemed to offend her - at least until the missing word was cleared up - and then things were fine again. I kept the tone civil and calm, and got of the phone by wishing her the best and telling her once more that I wish her a lot of happiness. It was a simple conversation - and I was surprised that I didn't feel any sadness - since it was, essentially a conversation of saying goodbye...and it turned out to be very easy for me just now..
I am glad that you got to have this conversation with B. I know from my own very recent experience how being able to tell one's spouse (feels a little odd for me to refer to mine that way, but for the sake of ease of writing, there you have it)what one's current feelings and state of mind are is invaluable.
I think I have posted on my thread that I was advised to write a letter of release to Z and I did so a while back. For the longest time, I thought of it as releasing him. But after reading your words, it occurs to me that we are also releasing ourselves when we release them.
Since so much of this work really needs to be about ourselves first and apart from our spouses, I think it is very important to release oneself.
Be kind to yourself in the days to come. This sort of endeavor can trigger lots of different emotions. Not saying anything negative will necessarily happen, just be open to feeling whatever arises in you. I know that you will do this; it is clear you have been doing so all along.
Carlos, I have had that discussion too. I remember at a point during the convo, feeling like it wasnt necessary even to have that discussion. I was soooo OVER him. Little did I know... Take care K
Hi Veronica and Kalni, I know that you're both right - there's still more to feel. While I was calm and even surprised at how relieved I felt when I talked with her yesterday - I know that there's still more to process and go through - and I'm in no denial of the fact that I still love her very much.
As sad as it is to have our marriage end I know that it has to be this way for us...there was just too much that didn't work - and, despite the fact that I was able to talk with her about the positives I see in her, I have not forgotten about the negatives that would plague us as we were together.
Kalni, like you, I did hit a point during the conversation, almost as soon as it started, that I felt like it wasn't even necessary to have the talk...but I had it nonetheless, and I felt a large sense of relief and release. It may, and probably will be, just part of what I have to let go of, but I know that it was the right thing to do...essentially I had to let her know that I loved her and that I would not hold on to her or keep her back from what she had to do with her life...and that let me go more as well.
One other big change in my life, and this is significant, is that my S11 might be living with me as of this summer - as it looks like his mother's plans for Europe have been postponed for at least a year. I think it would have been terrible, utterly terrible, if my S11 had lived with me and B and I were still together and going through what we're going through - and I just couldn't imagine having him be around her that constantly if she can't address her emotionally abusive side. I have a lot of calm around me when I'm with my kids - when she was still with me, that calm would often vanish once she got home or stepped into the room - that calm would be replaced with quiet tension and apprehension...and my S11's personality would also change, becoming more muted than it should ever have to be for a child.
I'll be okay. No matter what happens, I know I'll be okay, so long as I accept my reality and take action based on that reality.
Hey Carlos I am glad you have the talked with B. I understand the feeling of relief. It is like free our own self from them. I felt the same way after the closure talk with my W. You are right, there are still awful lots to process. Different emotions will creep back up once a while, but I know you will feel them. Let them run through you and you will be much stronger again. You are accepting the reality and make the best decision based on them. You will be fine, my friend. I know it.
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Hey NW, How have you been, my friend. Always nice to hear from you. Yes, there is relief - though lots of sadness too - since I'm making sure that I don't let myself fall into denial (there is a pun there, and it's only partially intended). I feel the loss creep up on me - and also the idea that if she could just reflect on herself - do the work herself - we could work things out...but that is just it...there's nothing to suggest that's going to happen - and that's why I had to release myself and her with that conversation - and it's helped me tremendously.
I won't fight my reality at all - ever again - and as I accept things I do my best to find the right course of action based not on fear but on being a stronger, healthier man.
I've started checking out more local schools today - hoping to find a decent place for my son to attend while he's living with my next year - provided that's how things continue to work out, that is. Life never stops...does it?
Good for you. I'm proud of you for having the conversation and even prouder still for how you handled the conversation.
You kept things focused on you and your changes. That is good. You discussed your changes and not her lack of changes. That is good.
You were able to disarm her anger and even get her to thank you. When was the last time you were able to elicit a thank you from her? I'm sure you were filled w/a wide range of emotions, but I'm so proud of you for keeping them in check and keeping your focus on what was important - letting the past go.
This is what you needed to do b/c now you can continue to "walk the walk" of your changed life. What happens next is anyone's guess.
You have shown W that you are ok w/out her and you have changed for the betterment of not only you, but for whomever you are involved w/next and your boys.
Will it be W? It could be, but if it isn't, you've laid the groundwork needed to move forward.
Again, I'm very proud of where you are and what you did. I'm not sure if my XW will be receptive to a talk like that, but maybe someday she will be.
RTL PS - You said this about your therapy sessions and your W's perceptions of you:
Quote:
my T quickly determined that I don't have an anger management issue at all
My XW is in the exact same boat. She says I have problems w/"rage" and "anger" which is why she left me. If you've read any of the e-mails from her I've posted, I think it is clear who has the anger problem. Can you say projection? Your W is in the same boat as mine.
Rob, When I read your XW's emails to you, I thought the same thing - very familiar tone - even the approach was familiar - like they use the same recipe book for their anger.
In one of our last MC sessions our T told B that she had a lot of anger in her and that she would have to work on that no matter what happened with us - she followed that up by mentioning to B that she felt like we were both projecting a lot of issues at one another...after that session B accused me of manipulating our T into seeing things my way - especially since T also described B's attitude toward me in that session as abusive (this was in the session when she blind-sided me with an accusation of hoarding away $40K...given how tight things are right now I wish it had been true...alas...not so...
Thanks for sharing your perspective on my interaction with her - I think I just kind of took it at face value and haven't evaluated it much at all. But what you say is true - I stayed focused on my changes and improvements and why I feel healthy - and didn't probe into her reasons for leaving or what she's doing now with her life. I emphasized what I thought was good about her - and even about having loved her and been friends with her - and mentioned that I regretted that we arrived where we did - but that I understood why she had to leave.
At one point she accused me of being vague - when I spoke about how I've learned things about myself in general terms - and so I just clarified for her that my biggest change was in letting go of control and accepting life more as its dealt me.
I know I've got a lot to do to get my life back in order - but I'm working toward it - and I know I'll be able to pull it off so long as I don't give up and drop the ball. I do get tired sometimes of how much I have to do right now - but I know that I can only tackle one thing at a time...got the new apartment taken care of - moving in on Saturday - once that's done I'll be able to focus more on work - all the while continuing to do my best for my boys.
I still can't believe that my S11 might be living with me from this summer on - for at least a year until he joins his mom in Europe for a year - but then returns to live with me for high school. Just the thought of having my son living with me gives me a huge burst of joy - something just indescribable. It will be an exciting time in his life to have him live with me..my goodness...my life is becoming such an echo my father's....I lived with him through high school - after he and his second wife separated (shortly after their daughter was born). They got back together after I went off to college - and during that time apart I know that my father dated other women - since I had at least a couple occasions of seeing the attractive nurses that left our house when I would come home earlier than expected...I judged him harshly for dating those nurses...now I see that he was trying to heal a wound...I don't think it was the right approach - but I understand it more now...
Right now, when I think of B, I just can't imagine living with her again. Her anger and darkness are still there too much - and I worry about their impact on my S11. She's okay with our baby boy - very loving and protective - but she's always had a kind of resentful relationship with my S11.
Hi Dudess, I always smile when you come by - I don't know if I've ever really told you how much your words, advice and compassion helped me through a lot of this - together with Smartcookie, the two of you shared with me perspectives that I never could have come to on my own - and you helped me on my journey toward freeing myself from B's anger in order to find myself again.
I hope the rest of the process goes smoothly too...I don't know that it will, but I do know that I won't play into her anger games...I sometimes just marvel at how much tension left my life and my home after she moved out - not that it was all because of her - but our poor dynamics seemed to thrive on negative energy - much like a black hole...
