Just what is working? What am I doing? I think I am screwing it up and making him more angry and possibly pushing him away. I don't think I am doing what we are supposed to be doing to DB. Any help or further comments appreciated. Feeling mostly scared right now.
{{{Silva}}}
I love how you started out that sentence, "GOD only knows" - I say Amen!
{{{Kassie}}} I had to hunt you down to find you..sheesh..LOL..ok..I'm fired up about your hub's convo *as you will see by all the capital letters LOL*..so fired up southern gal on the loose
OKAY..wow..all I can say is WOW about the crap your hub has been throwing at you! He's really digging for ways to make you feel badly..my hub said that about my kids..not the still being here but that I was doing my son a disservice by homeschooling him..they KNOW where to hit you where it digs..
Kassie..I agree with Silva (geez I always seem to say that LOL), that if it took a crappy convo for you to think about WHAT you need and what is best for you and to make you realize that UM NO..YOU don't deserve to be treated that way, to be dictated to about your kids (by the way, NOTHING wrong with that I think..what the heck?? If they were 40 and still living there, then maybe I'd talk to you LOL)..then I'm glad you had the crappy convo!
IF there would be one thing I could do to open your brain and drop this in there to make it STICK (sorry if you don't watch Heroes it sounds a bit more ridiculous LOL)..would be to forgive yourself and move forward for YOU...stop wondering and worrying about if every time you move wrong it is pushing your hub away..and stick up for YOU!
PLEASE stop thinking that you are messing up..Kass..YOU are not messing up!! Your HUB messed up, sure you were not 100% innocent, but HIS issues are HIS issues and it is so much easier for him to try to blame you than deal with his own problems. Looking at your convo with your hub, it sounds a lot like Pearl's note from her xbf and Silver's note from her hub..a lot of I's and me's and the only you's were about blame..(ok..I need to breathe myself here for a minute LOL)
OK.so..what are you doing right? WELL..you are sticking up for yourself first of all. Second of all, he is still talking, even in a junky form, of wanting to work things out. Third, you are taking things in and learning from them. Fourth, you are reaching out for help/advice/taking it all in. Fifth..should I go on..
I Hope you can let this yucky crappy day go..shake it off, and move forward..that's all any of us can do!! You can what if yourself to bits..but, at the end of the day, if you really sit down and look at it..look at how far we've come since this started for each of us..I always say, I hated the road I took, but I'm thankful for the destination I'm reaching!
:::okay..fired up southern gal is done now:::
{{{{{{{Kassie}}}}}}}}}}}}
Tawnya
Me:39 H:40 D18/S12 M20/T21 Bomb 10/11/08 One Two Three Four
I know the idea of DBing is that one person can change the relationship. But, if two people make an effort, the change can be unbelievable. The hard thing is to get that agreement to do it. And that is where Retrouvaille is so effective. Your kids are old enough to take care of themselves and the house for a weekend. Mine did. So there is no reason you can't go away together for less than 48 hours.
What they teach there cannot be synopsized in a post. But I do have a thread with a lot of info on it. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1716627&page=0&fpart=1 And Puppy Dog Tails and his wife went to Retro this weekend. So he should be posting about his experience either tonight or tomorrow. Another thread you can look it by Another Nightmare. They went about over Valentine's weekend. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1719676 and if you search his earlier threads you will see his sitch before Retro. A marriage of over 20 years deserves the effort of at least one weekend of your lives.
I hope you are ok. The rollercoaster sucks doesn't it? The thing I see is though, and believe me I know how easy it is to do, is to realise it is his rollercoaster - you have a choice as to whether you join him on it or step back. Stepping back to me is to take the attitude 'I understand that you are in a difficult place right not h, and I will try to be here for you but I will not allow you to rule my feelings/ emotions/ moods/ actions'. That is, you stop reacting to him.
I felt for such a long time that my h and I were banging our heads together and finding no understanding and empathy with each other, therefore we had no meaningful communication. It was when I started DBing that this changed, and it took quite a while to settle into a new pattern.
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He called several times today and I finally responded
Good job on not responding right away, shows GAL. However, when you did finally respond how did you react? Did you expect that he would fire stuff at you? Have you read the chapter on acting 'as if’? If he was calling for a good reason how would you react, next time try acting as if. Why not take the lead on the conversation. As him how his work is/ whether he has been up to anything exciting lately, and sound pleased to hear from him, not dreading what is coming.
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He started off telling me about some sermon he heard at church about how everyone has to work hard even when they don't feel like it.
A chance for listening and validation. Don't naturally assume it is about you. Show an interest, ask him more about it. It sounds like he phoned you with his own 'sermon' preaching your faults. How could you do a 180 here in your reactions? Obviously it is horrible when someone criticizes you (yuck!) but if you defend yourself it makes them do it more and more steadfast in their belief. Do you think it would have closed the conversation if you had said something like. 'Gosh H, that sermon sounds really interesting, thank you for sharing it with me' and maybe moved on by saying 'did anything else happen at church today'. That sounds very British on reading it back but you get the idea
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I stop him and explain that if he expects to me to work on the M with him then he needs to go back to school and learn how to be nice to someone if he wants something in return. Blaming me and pointing out my failures and telling me what to do and what to think is not how you win friends and influence people in a positive way.
You asked me for feedback so I am not trying to be horrible but are you his mother? If someone had said something like that to me I would have got p*ssed off. You can maybe see why he retorted. Don't be drawn into discussion. There is no need to defend yourself, you know that this is just WAS spiel and it is not true. However just at the moment he is very confused. If you lecture him and retort then you won't find an understanding. It is why he carried on with undermining your confidence at work.
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It's no wonder after all that he has put me through which no one really knows about - but yeah, I have been moody.
Have you read the chapter about forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. It sounds like you still blame him for a lot of things. Work out what those are by working out what is upsetting you most about the situation and then work out how *you* can change it. Think about your negative thoughts towards him and let them go...
It was good you stepped away from the situation. Did you just hang up the phone or did you say something like 'h, I'm really keen to continue this conversation later but right now I... (have to go/ need a break/ the dinner is boiling over)' that way you don't have to ring and apologise later when there is no need for you to apologise. Don't give him that upper hand. If you ring later or even the next day and act as if the chances are it won't continue, it is just WAS spew.
You need to develop broad shoulders hon and some consistent techniques. Always keep calm, listen, validate even when it is the most annoying untrue thing in the world and don't be drawn. Never lecture or mother and don't retaliate or react. The most important thing is to never take it personally; it is not about you it is about him and his journey. He is just projecting it onto you.
(((Kassie))) I know it is horrible and hard. I am kind of lucky that my h went silent, although at least you are getting feedback about where he is at on the positive. With my h I got paranoid not having a clue what was going on. I think they have plusses and minuses. You are doing great though; it must have been horrid to hear. Get those broad shoulders girl, there is going to be more before this thing is through.
What has been so hard about finding me? I feel like I dropped off the end of the earth since starting a new one.
{{{T}}}
Thanks for the response and encouragement. It isn't like I hadn't had these thoughts before now. I have been certain what I wanted all along just as he had been firm about what he wants. The difference has been that he used drinking to avoid dealing with his feelings and I tried looking for solutions, resolutions, giving him time and space to sort it out, and turned myself inside out to be sure I was giving it my all.
I have had doubts a long time. I thought time apart would allow forgiveness on both parts. After forgiveness I expected resolution and working on the R. I thought I was at forgiveness but his behavior since the separation continues to tear me apart. Funny, because his calls suggest we need to start at this point - forgiveness. But with him, in my experience, his sensibilities don't last. So I am not feeling quick to recover this time.
Sorry you had a rough time last night. Looks like you got some great advice. I too think you need to stick with the darkness. He does sound rattled and trying anything to get a reaction from you.
As we're constantly advised here - you need to do what YOU want to do and leave him blowing in the wind. How long have you been separated? Maybe it hasn't been enough time?
Hang in there.
Me 56 H 47 Married 21 years No children Bomb & moved out 4/07 "My feelings have changed" & "I want to live by myself". Ow Bomb 8/07 H filed 6/08 D final 2/05/10
Wow! You got to the point. It was hard to take - I was looking more for sympathy. But your points are well made and I am thinking about them.
I have been working on the roller coaster thing for awhile. STill needs a lot of work.
We definitely are both stubborn minded for certain hence all the head banging. I did DBing before reading the book just after our separation and it worked to a point. In other words, as long as I could keep it up, things went fine, but when I couldn't keep it up, the R went South. I am juggling too many responsibilities to do all the work myself. I thought he was turning a corner in the last two weeks but clearly not yet.
Secret, not GALing, just not answering. Everytime the phone rings, or I see messages, I get sick to my stomach.
I normally would turn the sermon into an interesting talk but he made it clear he was making a point about us specifically in relating it to me. I realized that it was personal, but perhaps didn't allow him room for saying it was about him also.
You make a good point about the mother thing - but he is a bit 'slow about many things" - and I thought if I made myself clear about what I am looking for from him it would make it easier.
It ended badly - I hung up the first time, called back after calming down and genuinely feeling bad about ending the call that way and called to apologize. I also try to model for him the fact that people can get angry with each other and then they get over it. He gets angry and stays that way for days.... So, after the apology the argument continued with him and I tried to warn that I needed to stop and ended up hanging up again because he didn't have any control.
He did called a few times with more self control - I didn't answer - just listened to them. He showed a lot of restraint in repeating his original message that we need to talk about our R moving forward and forgiving each other. I haven't returned the call. Don't really want to talk to him now. Personally feel that we aren't anywhere close to working on our M together. Afterall, he only has 3 weeks of sobriety, and 2 IC sessions behind him. I think there needs to be much more insight on his part before he can deal with our stuff.
I do keep hearing one thing from everyone and that is he is still communicating with me even though I keep going dark on him.
So, while you were hard on me, I do appreciate the straight talk. I may feel I need the hugs a lot of the time, but I also need straight talk at times. My mother used to talk to me that way and I would resent it, she explained that I just responded better that way so she kept it up. Thanks for reminding me of my other side and while I didn't like my mother very much - this was good.
Hey lady, we have been separated for 7 months. He is incapable of going dark, I have a much easier time of it. I only respond at times out of respect vs complete disrespect which at this point I almost feels he deserves.
I'm sorry, I just admitted something in a prior post that I haven't mentioned before now and it has me bummed out. Thanks for the encouragement.
I'm sorry to hear that. So I guess it goes without saying that the two of you have a toxic R.
I think it really is time for you to put yourself first - something you haven't done since you married him?
Me 56 H 47 Married 21 years No children Bomb & moved out 4/07 "My feelings have changed" & "I want to live by myself". Ow Bomb 8/07 H filed 6/08 D final 2/05/10
True enough, all along I have tried to get my point out there in the R - but mostly, it had been awhile for me being M and so i wanted to work at it better. So put up with more for a short time, then last year I decided I would put my stuff out there and if he didn't like it he could leave me or he could accept it. H response what to drink more, act out to the point that I asked him for a decision - counseling, sobriety or separation. He moved out 10 days later.
I have stuck to my side of things since then, and he has rebelled, argued, walked out, gotten so drunk he ended up in the hospital and now is sober and in IC. He no longer wants a D, wants to work things out, but on his terms. I won't give in to that so it continues to be negotiated on his part - ie. he won't give up now and even though he sees how bad it has been - he wants us to make something better.
Having time to think and talk it out, I don't know what to do other than give it more time - he has dissappointed me everytime. I just said he won't give up but the minute I start to work on it with him - he will bail in a second. Tough place to be - just giving his AA sponsor and therapist some time to see if they can make a difference. In the meant time, I am feeling less hopeful.
