Standing on the Edge

[native]

I feel for you native. I don't think you should believe her. Nor do I think it's time to date. For either of you. My thought is that once you start dating, that's the last sign before leaving the tracks for good. Biblically, you should not while married. Unless I missed the divorce? You owe it to yourself and your relationship with God but I do understand your anger and resentment and hurt. I've had similar thoughts.

You know AJ, everything within me agrees in theory with you. I have no control of course whether she dates or not.

I have told her she has until the divorce is final, which would be this fall sometime, after that all bets are off. But I wonder if she is just taking me for granted here.

My two different motives for thinking about dateing.

1: to make her realize she may lose me for good.

2: because she may have already lost me for good by her recent behavior.

If I went out, it would not be immediatly with the intention of romance, however it would be a risk, especially in the emotional state I am in.

I think for sure I will join the men from my church on Tues. nights down at a local Irish pub and start building a network of friends that I was unable to do while married.

You know, strictly speaking, I am still married. But to whom ? To my wife? Only on paper apparantly. W took off her rings almost 8 mos. ago. She hasn't been physically unfaithful, from what I can gather......

Anyway, gotta go to work. Thanks. I don't know what I will do at this point other than go dark.

[MsMelancoly]

Some very good thoughts & advise here - I must say.

native - I think you found 1 answer & didn't realize it. Again, your W got too close to you & thus pulled some sh*t, to back off again. Not knowing what she wants or how to act. It is good she owned up to her actions though.

Dating, take a hard look before going that route, as far as divorce is concerned ... do you want that possibly used against you?

My 2 cents thrown in

[native]

I agree with you Msm, about W getting too close and acting crazy to distance herself.

I think it is fantastic that she actually owned up to her actions instead of continuing to blame me for everything.

I just have gotten to the point that validating and understanding and forbearing seem to no longer be serving my goal. I think that serious distancing is what is the best right now.

I am pretty hurt and angry. I can't justify her behaviour towards me. It is verging on abusive.

I think she has some faulty beliefs about love, that others make you feel some way and if they don't make you feel it, then you must have made a mistake.

I have lost all respect for her. I feel sorry for her, but I do not respect her for her behaviour or her beliefs.

It really isn't ok. I can't accept this behavior. I can forgive, but I will not accept it.

She suffers from depression, you know that. She also said that our counselor once told her I needed to be on medication for anxiety. Most of my anxiety was over her crazy behavior. So the He** with that.

I don't know if I will 'date' yet. I just know that for the first time I am seriously considering moving on, in fact, not just for show or to get her to notice.

She would never press for full custody. She is not willing to be a full time mother. She is trying to re-live her pre-marriage single years. So me dating would not be used against me to gain custody. She also did not ask for alimony in the seperation agreement, because at the time she falsely thought she was earning more than me and did not want to be giving me any money.

Even after we sat down with her family and put the earnings info on the table and she saw I was earning and paying for at least half of our expenses.

Since she left I have had to assume about $1500 more in monthly debt, since I took on the mortgage. Fortunately, since she left I have been blessed with more than adequate work and have generally been able to meet my obligations with some to spare.

Anyway, she needs to roast in her own juices for a while. I am done with the drama.

[Kenn]

Hey Native,

Thanks for the response to my last post from you and AJ.

No advice from me just a whole lot of support.

I guess I am following your thread because your first ones were really making positive steps and our stories are so close right up to the part of dating and a wife that says she loves our child but their actions don't hide the fact that they really want to step away from their obligations of marriage and being a parent.

I will be taking my daughter (8yr old) to the circus this Friday on a day that she should be with her mom. Her mom doesn't like the circus and was very willing to give up day with daughter if I would take her. No problem ... her loss. But it is so evident tht they want to live a single unecumbered life. There are things we miss too but we accepted the fact that being a parent you have to meet obligations and give up some of the stuff we love. That makes you a stronger and better person!!!!

It is easy to forgive because there has to be somehting going on inside those brains that we don't understand.

We all learn certain lessons we carry forever, one of mine was something a mentor told me, "think about what they will say at your funeral and you can judge the life you lived". The one thing they will say at mine was I tried to be the best dad I could. It sounds your family will say the same about you. You have gone out of your way to make a better life for your daughter and people will respect you for it.

[native]

Kenn,

I wish I could have been as good a husband to my wife as I feel I am trying to be a father to my daughter. I had such an incredibly hard time understanding what she was unhappy about. I know she has clinical depression, but there were so many things in her life that seemed to have gone wrong. I sometimes feel she is addicted to drama and destined for tragedy.

I knew she was down when we met, but we did so much enjoy spending time together, though it was clear she was feeling down. I felt compassion for her I guess, but spent so much time with her, had enough good times that my feelings developed into love.

She was 'date raped' twice by two different guys during the two years we were friends, however. And she was 'recovering' from a painfully ended relationship. Her previous boyfriend of 4 years was unfaithful to her and when she walked in on them, he laughed at her shock and pain.

We talked about that relationship a few months ago and it was very clear to me that her interactions with him immediately preceeding the unfaithfullness gave him the justification for this betrayal. I don't know if she fully comprehended how her behavior contributed to the breakdown of that relationship though.

[native]

W called to stop by after evening class at local college, to see daughter and to pick up some dresses she had left in daughter's closet.

I had already taken them to her place, so she spent a few minutes kissing and being sweet to our D. I'm glad she is developing a relationship with our D after all this time.

We talked a bit. I told her I was getting a babysitter for Sat. night because I was going out. It isnt a date, just a couple of fundraising events for a neigborhood boy who has been diagnosed with muscular dystrophy.

She told me she was going to a new friend's house(Claire)for 'Casino Night' a la James Bond. I don't know how old Claire is, but she met her from class. I am guessing Claire is less than thirty, never married, as will be all the guests at the party. These are the type of people my 32 yo. wife seems to prefer hanging with. Loser.......

The whole time she was in my house I felt uncomfortable. I avoided making eye contact. I am so distrustful of her. I don't ever want to be on the receiving end of one of her rants again. I avoid engaging her, without being rude. I avoid small talk, but converse with her when she talks to me.

I just couldn't wait for her to leave. She makes me sick.

Before she left, my sweet D kept asking her when she was going to come back. She then demanded that W come back. W kept repeating no, she was not coming back.

So of course after W leaves I have to talk with my D and just say how Mommy has to decide when and if she comes back. Until then we will continue to love her and pray for her.

I guess the thing that has changed most since the last blowout on Valentines is that I am sure I don't want her back.....unless there is a complete and permanent change. Do I expect that miracle ? Not really.

[native]

I have felt so much anger towards my W this last year. I have moments of understanding about how she feels, but I know how much she has contributed to this. To a large degree this is a self inflicted wound.

But she will never fully understand it from this perspective.

For her, she does not love me. She never loved me.

I know this is selective memory at work.

In many ways, I am lucky. She feels guilty about what she is doing and she did not sneak around on me. I imagine she will tell me when she meets someone new. I don't see her having great opportunities to find Prince Charming however.

She is going to want/need a very long, seductive courtship period, perhaps 6-8mos. That is, AFTER she is married.

She has to find someone who can support her, as she does not want to work anymore.

She needs someone who will put up with CRAZY whenever she tries to get her needs met or is unhappy.

Someone who wants to deal with our D. ( This is where I as the only DAD am not going to be ok with another man interjecting himself in the r with my D!!!!!)

She has gained 40+ lbs since marriage and has not been dressing very nicely.

She can't budget $$$, spends it as soon as it is available.

Need I go on ?

Sure, she has a great personality when it comes to friendship, but how long will that last ?

She has no good example of a LTR.

Oh well... just blowing steam.

[native]

Do I sound petty listing all her shortcomings and the things that bode poorly for her long term happiness ?

Sometimes I ponder the value of waiting for her to turn the corner back again.

Even if she did decide she wanted to make it work, could she ?

I don't think she looks at herself as needing to change and grow. Perhaps she does, but she has not admitted this to anyone I know of yet.

In many ways, I am relieved she is gone. Saddened,hurt but relieved. Her unhappiness was a cloud over our family.

I just don't know how to fix this for my daughter though.

Any children of divorce feel free to give me any advice here.

[MsMelancoly]

Hey native, Sorry to hear the change of events. No, you don't sound petty listing her shortcomings - it's good to get them out & here is the best place. I think we all come to the fork in the road you have. You continue to grow, while she seems not to be able to & thus keeps herself in the vicious circle of the same actions.

I, as a matter of fact came from a divorced home. My parents divorced when I was 3. Back then, in the 70's divorce was not common - so in a way, I always felt like an outsider. The best thing you can do for your D (& you are doing this) is be there for her to share her feelings with you.

I'm at a loss for words at the moment - maybe later.

Stay strong & work through the anger you have. Don't let the anger pull you down & control you.

[native]

Msm, thanks for sharing...this whole thing is like slowly dying...but, not to be too metaphysical, there will be a rebirth. I can feel it already.

In a sense, I have really begun to let her go. I still feel a lot of anger sometimes, but I am beginning to think of life without her.

It would be so much easier without the thought of what my D will be losing......................................................

I went out tonight to two fundraisers for a neighborhood boy who has been diagnosed with muscular dystrophy. I talked briefly with his mom, who lives three houses down. She knew about our seperation. We both knew what it was like when something unexpected comes our way, that puts all your dreams and expectations on hold....as the music from the band played we shared our mutual pain and understood each others sadness.

It was a good night. The neighborhood progressive dinner was a good chance to connect with others who know of us and let them know what was happening. We have very close community of friends on our street, which unfortunatly my wife and I have not always been a part of.

Later, the second fundraiser consisted of people from the church I attend, which is also the church of the family with the boy, Matthew, who has muscular dystropy.

I came in at 8 when it started and felt uncomfortable so I left. I sat in my car and listened to music for a while and contemplated going home. I had connected for no one the 20 minutes I had been in there. Most were married.

I decided to go back in after about an hour and the party was a lot more relaxed. People were dancing and mingling a lot more. I eventually started talking to people and enjoying myself. I can experience shyness if I don't know the people well.

I got invited to take part in several things the church is doing, like softball and a tuesday night roundtable discussion of the previous Sunday's sermon at a local pub, under the influence of Guinness. Well, that is one thing I appreciate about Methodists!