Spellfire # 3 - Need a campfire here

[pearlharbr]

Spellfire,

I think she is going to continue making those kinds of assumptions until she knows you aren't going to pressure her. She doesn't know that yet. It's going to take more time and consistency in your actions. Lucky is right, continue being consistent and transparent.

And keeping count of the days is NOT helping you. You can keep telling yourself that it doesn't bother you that much but as long as you're keeping track of the days it shows you ARE still focused on getting as much as you think you deserve.

Not to say you aren't right, but it will come through to your W and she instinctively knows that you're still keeping track and that adds to the sense of pressure. Does that make sense?

[LG nm12]

Phew! Thanks Pearlharbr. I was hoping a wiser member would step in. You also helped me in your second paragraph, so thanks.

Question, Pearlharbr: How do you turn off the monitoring? I (and I'm sure Mike and many others) can't help but notice what my spouse is and is not doing. How do you change your head? It is so frustrating to know that it's a problem, understand that it has to change or you'll never move forward, but then not be in control of how you internalize what you see happening right in front of you. How do you achieve that level of wisdom and maturity that actually changes your perspective? I feel like I've been working so hard, and I'm still failing when I feel disappointed when my spouse doesn't seem to be working at it. All the 2x4's in the world don't seem to help me. DUH. Maybe I need to give myself an electric shock every time I focus on him. I feel helpless against my own brain.

Sorry, Mike, to hijack. I thought the answer to this question might help you too.

Lucky

[spellfire]

I don't consider it a hijack LG, it's on topic, and seeing my thread stagnate is way more depressing.

Thank you, both of you, for responding. Imma think on this a little and post my thoughts back later.

[spellfire]

Oh, and I came across this in the bookstore, but didn't buy it. Just thought I would mention it since it is written from the perspective of a LD woman. I will likely pick it up once my reading list diminishes a little (I'm reading three books right now and have another three waiting, plus I want to go back through NMMNG again and do the exercises).

http://www.amazon.com/Id-Rather-Eat-Chocolate-revolution/dp/0767922689/

[pearlharbr]

Gosh Lucky, I wouldn't consider myself a wiser member, just someone coming from the perspective of your LDS.

So unfortunately I have no idea how you turn it off in your head. You'd have to ask my xBF since he apparently lived with it for so long he lost the desire (according to him).

I think a "fake it 'til you make it" or "as if" approach may work. If you keep up with the consistent actions and reassuring your S that you want to initiate physical contact without it leading to ML you will eventually focus more on that and the counting will stop.

The important thing is the sincerity behind your actions and words. We LDS can feel the pressure whether it's overt or implied. And believe it or not, it does make us feel bad that we know we aren't giving you what you want/need. At least that was true in my case.

Ultimately, what we harp on in A/WAS situations is true for a SSM: you cannot control someone else's actions. The only thing you can do is work on yourself and what you do in any given sitch. If you continue to focus on what your S is or isn't doing to improve your M it's just going to drive you crazy.

[spellfire]

I think she is going to continue making those kinds of assumptions until she knows you aren't going to pressure her. She doesn't know that yet. It's going to take more time and consistency in your actions. Lucky is right, continue being consistent and transparent.

You are right, I need to keep demonstrating that I can be physically affectionate without turning it into something sexual.
Right now she doesn't know what to expect, since she has a long history of me reacting to being near her, and only recently has seen me not react sexually to being close to her.

That said, how do I let her know that I do want more? I guess she did tell me "If you need physical contact, don't just sigh, say something."

I have never really vocalized my dissatisfaction. When I really do want more, I need to tell her, even if I think it's bad timing.

And keeping count of the days is NOT helping you. You can keep telling yourself that it doesn't bother you that much but as long as you're keeping track of the days it shows you ARE still focused on getting as much as you think you deserve.

This is an internal conflict for me. Since reading NMMNG, I have decided I will settle for no less than a sexually fulfilling R. I continue to work hard on DBing, but the whole SSM thing is a deal breaker for me. I deceived myself for so long that I could live this way, until I shut down so much my W was ready to leave me.

Are you saying counting the days is not a good measure of how sexually fulfilled I am? Is there a better way to decide how much is enough effort on her part in order for me to stay?

I think one of the problems in my R is that W believed and continues to believe I would never leave her. She sees me as someone who avoids change and seeks security. I need to change this perception in her. She feels too safe, and does not make our R a priority.

Not to say you aren't right, but it will come through to your W and she instinctively knows that you're still keeping track and that adds to the sense of pressure. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense, although I think even if I stop counting the days, she will still feel a sense of pressure, whether real or imagined. She says she feels guilty she can't give me what I need, plus she is conscious of the times I ask her and she turns me down, and even if she doesn't count the days, she is aware it has been a while. If I bring up the topic, she gets extremely defensive and says "don't you think I feel guilty enough as it is?", but she does nothing, and nothing changes, and she is unwilling to work on the issue. It feels like a defense to get me to drop the subject. Even when I am not saying anything that would induce guilt and just opening up to her about the subject, she does this.

Sorry this post is all over the place, I am just putting it all out there as it comes to mind, maybe I will try to make more sense of it all later.

[LG nm12]

When you're ready, you're going to drop the rope. That is, you're going to give up looking to her to make this right. (I haven't reached this point, yet, but someday I will.) And, then you will have peace. And, then she will work like hell to figure out why she has resentment.

Would you guys consider MC or sex therapy? It seems like you both need help sorting through how you're feeling.

Lucky

[pearlharbr]

Spellfire, perhaps you can flag Puppy down for his input here. I know he's helped me tremendously in my sitch and he had also been dealing with SSM before his W had A.

Again, I'm really no expert here since xBF walked away from our R without giving me the opportunity to fully address our SSM/R.

You should not have to settle for anything less than a fulfilling sexual R with your W. I hope you didn't think I was implying you should. The point I was trying to make is that I think you're expecting immediate changes and it's just not going to work that way in your current sitch.

I'm trying to remember if you've clearly stated to your W what you expect the end result to be and how you both need to work on things to get there. I remember Puppy having that convo with Mrs. Puppy, saying that he was no longer willing to live that way and outlined what he expected to happen.

I understand you are frustrated with your W's lack of effort. You should be. When xBF dropped the bomb on me I immediately started looking into everything I could do to find solutions. I bought and read SSM, went to see an endocrinologist for testing, stopped taking BC pills, bought new lingerie, initiated ML...that was the first two weeks.

But notice that this was after he dropped a bomb on me. Would I have preferred if he brought this up before already deciding he was done and starting having EA/PA? Of course. But it was certainly motivating! After years of knowing somewhere in the back of my mind that things were not good but ignoring them I took action.

I am not advising you to drop your own bomb, but perhaps think about figuring out exactly what you expect her to be doing to address the situation and what will happen if she doesn't. Then when you're ready you can have that conversation. But please, please, please be reasonable in your expectations.

[spellfire]

Would you guys consider MC or sex therapy? It seems like you both need help sorting through how you're feeling.

We are trying to save money right now, and our insurance has clauses saying it wont cover MC. One of W's complaints is no extra money to spend on herself, so she is highly resistant to spending money on MC, forget about sex therapy. Times are a little tight for us right now.

[spellfire]

You should not have to settle for anything less than a fulfilling sexual R with your W. I hope you didn't think I was implying you should. The point I was trying to make is that I think you're expecting immediate changes and it's just not going to work that way in your current sitch.

You are absolutely right.

I'm trying to remember if you've clearly stated to your W what you expect the end result to be and how you both need to work on things to get there. I remember Puppy having that convo with Mrs. Puppy, saying that he was no longer willing to live that way and outlined what he expected to happen.

Having just got the R back on track, it is a hard subject to approach. Some here would likely say I need to be more patient and put more into the R. I continue to do so, and I am being fairly patient with her. Most of my frustration I vent here.

When I do try to bring up the subject and talk to her about it like this, she wont listen to me. She cuts me off immediately and gives me the whole "I already feel guilty without this adding to it" defense. While I have worked very hard on my listening skills through DBing, she will rarely hear me out on anything I have to say. She jumps to immediate conclusions without even hearing what it is I truly am trying to say to her. She intercepts and gets defensive almost immediately.

When xBF dropped the bomb on me I immediately started looking into everything I could do to find solutions. I bought and read SSM, went to see an endocrinologist for testing, stopped taking BC pills, bought new lingerie, initiated ML...that was the first two weeks.

I would likely have a heart attack if W did any of those things without me having some involvement, lol.

But notice that this was after he dropped a bomb on me. Would I have preferred if he brought this up before already deciding he was done and starting having EA/PA? Of course. But it was certainly motivating! After years of knowing somewhere in the back of my mind that things were not good but ignoring them I took action.

I have brought it up many many times to her. It has been my primary complaint for the last 8 years when she asks me what I am unhappy about in the R. She has never taken the complaint seriously and has basically told me I am a jerk for only being interested in sex. She doesn't consider sex to be particularly important, and seems to think I am a jerk for being "obsessed" with it.

I am not advising you to drop your own bomb, but perhaps think about figuring out exactly what you expect her to be doing to address the situation and what will happen if she doesn't. Then when you're ready you can have that conversation. But please, please, please be reasonable in your expectations.

No bombs from me, and certainly no EA/PAs. I would warn her I'm leaving, then leave, before I would ever cheat. I am not pursuing ML very aggressively (hence the 21 days and counting), I am really trying hard to get everything straight in my head before I execute any kind of plan.

Thanks again for stopping by pearl, much appreciated again.