Is the answer blowing in the wind?

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi-

Late happy birthday wishes! Treat yourself to something b/c you deserve it!

I just want to move forward. I am sick and tired of looking backwards. I told him last night that I feel angry because he is standing in the way of me having my family and he agreed that he was doing that, but that's why we are going to counseling- to see if we can put it together. <---that is the statement that keeps me from moving on.

Remember, it's always up to you what you want to do. It sounds like there is still possibility, but it will take work, up and down. Do you want to keep going? My stbx said a lot of the same things during our first S. I think what worked for me was to not talk about what to do- just start doing things. Like inviting him to do some activity, etc or acting interested in what he's doing and then he invited me to do something (as if we were dating again). I acted casual like an independent person that didn't need to spend time w. him, I did only b/c we got together to do something fun (like friends do)- and I tried as little as possible to talk about our relationship or the amt of time we spent together. DB talks about limiting R talk- in your MC, you could try a more casual approach like this- backing off - let the C do talking, let him do talking and give short, neutral or even happy sounding answers.

When he mentioned that to the MC yesterday she said "15 hours is a lot-really too hard to do." That chapped my ass. I said "no, not really. If you figure an hour'ish per night for dinner, there's 7 hours already done. Another 8 carved out on the weekend or spending more than an hour together once or twice during the week and you're at 15 hours." Grrrr. Let's think about how much time gets spent in front of computers and TV and now tell me that there is no way to find 15 hours. Puhleeze. Having said that--it wasn't the actual hours I was concerned about-- it was that it felt like spending ANY time was like pulling teeth.

You're right, 15 hrs isn't a lot. Most couples probably spend at least this much time together without even thinking about it. I think the secret is not to talk about it though- perhaps that is where the tension lies. I've got an interesting perspective right now b/c I'm temporarily living w. my mother. Sometimes if she wants me to do something, or talks about what she would like us to do- I get that feeling of OMG- can she just back off right now please. But if we talk about going to a flower show together or trying a new recipie or something, I don't feel this way at all. What is your H's mother like? My stbx's mother is really controlling and he spent a lot of time rebelling against her. Disclaimer- None of this is to say that either you or I are like our mothers -but that perhaps some wisdom about less talk more action can be gained from this. It's all in the approach. Do you think your H would respond if you all the sudden said "You're right, it's not about the hours. Life is too short. Let's just hang out. So, you wanna check out this movie next Thurs?" (Secretly, you may easily get your 15 hours or more from this approach) It's up to you if you think this is worth it too, of course. There are plenty of men that will not "dread" issues and that you may never have to get to this point with. I'm hoping I find one of those!

[Silent Chrleader]

Hi, Trixi!

I got your post on my thread, so decided to come over here and check yours out. I see a lot of similarities in your sitch and mine!!

I too am working on getting my S17 into drug/alcohol testing and possibly treatment.

Your H and mine seem to be much alike too. I envy you the fact that your H is at least willing to go to MC and actually talk about the R. Mine refuses even after 7 months of seperation, and says he's "really happy" to have the "weight lifted off his shoulders". ("weight" = wife & family).

Just when I think I am doing pretty well and am going to make it through all this, something else happens and I have a backslide or meltdown. Patience is my biggest challenge!! That, and the door between my brain and my mouth has always been stuck in the "open" position!!

Take care!.......and if you're in the alt (FB) look me up under "SChrldr".

[SallyM]

Hey Trixi,

just stopped by to check on a few of the folks here, and wanted to see how you were doing. am wondering, have you considered IC for yourself? I can't for the life of me remember if you are in it. I'm interested in the MC idea of getting stuck at a certain part. I know in this case she is saying your H is getting stuck there, but am wondering if there is something to that for you, too. that you get to a point that finds you back where you were before. does that make sense?

I definitely noticed a pattern like that for me, and IC helped me a ton.

good luck with all...wishing you well!

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi-

Just checking in- hope you're doing ok!

[Trixi]

Hey thanks for checking in L_L.

H and I have been seeing each other quite a bit lately.

I picked him up early from work yesterday and we spontaneously went out to lunch and then to a wildlife park/river where we just sat in the sun and listened to the water go by.

H is getting pretty depressed. Partly due to lack of sun. Partly because the band isn't coming together like he had hoped. Partly due to some worries about job security. Partly because he just doesn't know what to do about 'us'. He is disappointed in himself; he wants to do different things, but can't seem do it. He is worried about how his court date will go. He sometimes wonders if he should just give up on the music thing; but he thinks he would look stupid if he gave up now.

I am quite depressed myself. I feel like my life is not in my control. The real estate market is crap. I have no creative energy in me. I am worried about my H, my relationship w/H, I want my family in tact. (Don't we all.) I am worried about how I can possibly support myself should the worst come to pass. I've been white-knuckling my way thru this market and my reserves are nearly depleted.

We did talk yesterday a bit about both of us feeling depressed. I told him that when he talks about his concerns, I so badly want to hug him and say "Don't worry; we'll get thru this together; I got your back." He said "I know you do. Don't you think I have your back?" I said that I knew he would take care of me if I got really sick or something, but I meant it in a way that is more than 'friends'. I meant it in a "we're partners and it's "us" against the world."

--------------------------
In other news, I found something really fun to do. There is a new comedy club nearby. It is much closer to where I live AND it is not in the "big city", so there is lots of parking, and there aren't bums and urine puddles. (yay!) Anyway, that was pretty good all by itself, but wait, there's more. On Thursdays the club has a sommelier come in and do a wine class. He teaches us how to taste wines, what to look for, etc etc. After the class, the comedians come on. So, I took H last Thursday and it was AWESOME. And a SCREAMING deal! It's $15/person for the class and then the show is "free". Wine bottles are half price that night. H and I got about 2 glasses worth of wine each during the sampling; a plate of $10 nachos that were YUM, a mixed drink, a beer, and 2 bottles of wine to take home for $54. oh, and of course, the class and then the show. 3.5 hours of entertainment, excellent wine, full tummys. It was great. I am going to go again this Thursday (to learn about wines from Australia). H is jamming that night, so it'll just be me. (I did try to invite a couple different peeps; but one is allergic to wine and another has to get up early the next day.)

Last Wednesday my GF and I went to dinner and a free comedy show at the casino. Thursday was wine and comedy. Friday I went to a meetup to play Rockband2. Saturday went to dinner with H. Sunday hung out with H all day thru dinner. Monday, got H at work and hung out most of the day/early evening.
So, it's not like I am holed up in my house; I am getting out and doing things.....

I hope to God the stimulus plan works. I am starting to feel frantic. And since I am "self employed", I can't get unemployment; free job training ,etc. BLAH!!!!

[Trixi]

Last night H came over and we did fondue. It was a-ma-zing! if I do say so myself. lol

convo "highlights"

-he's afraid that if we get back together he might cheat down the road. to which I said "So, this is your character deficit; not mine." and he readily agreed; he just doesn't "know" if he can commit...doesn't know what his problem is.

-he said that when we first got married he thought he had it made and was happy happy. Then I disappeared. (ARGH!!!!!!!!!) I calmly (but firmly) said "I. Was. SICK!" He says "I know how hard it can be to pull yourself out of depression...." (DOUBLE ARGH!!!) I said "This was not "just" a depression. I could NOT "will" myself to be better. When will you get it?????" And then I had a stroke of genius. I said "I want you to grow some boobies. Just "will it" to happen." He had to laugh and said "Your analogies are so over the top." UGH!! To which I said "That is the thing- it actually is NOT over the top. I did NOT have the hormones." He actually stopped and became thoughtful; we'll see if it actually changes his perception.

-He's afraid if we live together we won't do fun stuff.
blah blah blah :rolls eyes:

We "argued" a bit about whose family is more annoying.

Just one more week until the counselor comes back. Maybe she will be able to help him work thru his issues regarding committing.
He is still looking for me to be patient and give him time to work thru all this.

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi! How're you doing? Hope things are ok- thinking about you! I've got a new thread over in Surviving now. Check it out for my latest craziness.(OMG)

[Trixi]

Hey L_L, I'll have to go find you over in surviving to see wazzup with your sitch.
My sitch is probably drawing to a close. I guess counseling is "helping" in that we're figuring out where he might be stuck, but I don't actually see any improvement.

The past couple sessions (gee I haven't posted for awhile), we figured out that my H didn't really have "safe" people in his life. (Growing up and now.) That I am the safest person in his life. The question was "If Trixi is the safest person in your life, why do you want to leave?")

In the most recent session, it came out that even though I am overall the safest, the time period when I was gone/checked out/hormonally challenged, he felt abandoned, hurt and disappointed. He had never planned to get married a second time, but he took a chance with me and "look how it turned out". He intellectually "gets" I was sick, but he is still mad in his heart. The counselor is hoping to really look at that next session and help him forgive and move forward.

Since that session he has actually seemed more irritable. He called me yesterday and there was an "edge" in his voice. He told me how he was pushing back blackberry bushes in our yard (ie, heavy labor) and how I had complained that it wouldn't look good (long story) but that it DID look good, thank you very much. That was 3 years ago. He was asking me if I was 'sick' then. (IOW, felt like he was trying to find reason's to be mad at me that didn't have to do with when I was sick.) This past weekend I had gone shopping with him to look for plants/trees to put in that area. I hooked him up with an amazing maple this past summer. And he wants to go back in time and remember negative stuff. Then he announces that instead of getting together tonight as planned, he is going out to see a band. Grrrr.

My story is getting too drawn out. Suffice it to say, he says he has been doing A LOT of thinking, he knows he needs to decide, he thinks counseling is helping. From my perspective, it appears that counseling has really helped him access his anger and is now helping him create an 'argument' for why he should decide to leave once and for all. I can only hope she will stop the momentum before it snowballs out of control.

I do think that we are about to identify the root cause of his fear of living together though...maybe not uncover..."address" might be a better word. All of his objections/fears are specific to when I was sick. He has said he can't really articulate his fears, but I think he can and does. I think what he really means is that in his heart of hearts, he hasn't forgiven me and still thinks it was in my control.

I am shutting down. I am tired of being the one to turn a blind eye to his shortcomings while he emphasizes mine. His excuse for bad behavior is that he had "checked out". I can accept that, but I have an actual documentable, physical reason for why *I* checked out, and he can't forgive me (in his heart) for that?

I have stood by him during this time with not being able to drive. I have gone way out of my way to take him places, etc. And then he says in counseling that he thinks I was TOO empathetic (after a bad court date) and that I *should* have just told him to suck it up. Especially frustrating for me--I had specifically asked him on that day how I could best help him and he said to help him hang in there. But then, I find out later how I "didn't do it right" in his eyes.

Last night when he was explaining why I wasn't invited to go out with him tonight to see the band, he said that he hasn't gotten to go out with the guys in a long time and he *needs* to be able to go out with the guys. And since he still doesn't know what is happening with him and I, he wasn't prepared to have me hang out with him and his friends. Maybe *I* need to find someone more mature who doesn't think they "need" to go to bars with their buddies.

Maybe I am being too rigid.

[Loving_Life]

I am tired of being the one to turn a blind eye to his shortcomings while he emphasizes mine. His excuse for bad behavior is that he had "checked out". I can accept that, but I have an actual documentable, physical reason for why *I* checked out, and he can't forgive me (in his heart) for that?

From an outside perspective, no that isn't very fair of him! So many WAS get into the blaming mode. It is an excuse for his behavior- it's much easier to blame you than to admit his own pain/problems. On the other side of the coin, the closer you get to his deep feelings, there is a possibility he can work through them and start a new chapter with you. That is ultimately up to him though. I hope your C can help the sitch. Yes you have stood by him and if he can't recognize you are a blessing to him(not a problem), it is HIS loss.

Yes, sometimes C's don't help (my C didn't help my M) but it really depends on the C. If it seems like she is focusing on his anger a lot, maybe it isn't best to continue

Last night when he was explaining why I wasn't invited to go out with him tonight to see the band, he said that he hasn't gotten to go out with the guys in a long time and he *needs* to be able to go out with the guys. And since he still doesn't know what is happening with him and I, he wasn't prepared to have me hang out with him and his friends. Maybe *I* need to find someone more mature who doesn't think they "need" to go to bars with their buddies.

This is really lame of him!! What is he talking about? I thought he lived separately from you and plans his daily schedule on his own. The whole explanation part sounds like he's in high school or something. Don't blame yourself, you've been a saint to him(hugs)

[Trixi]

Journaling
Well, first things first, I found out that he didn't actually have intercourse with the other two girls, just sorta goofed around. Not that it makes it "ok"....it's just not "as bad" as I thought and now I don't have to imagine him 'with' someone else.

Counseling I am still not sure about. It seems to be making things worse. I feel less connected to him. It feels like all we do is focus on negative crap from the past and I am tired of it. I am tired of having to say over and over, "I was sick". H is dredging up all sorts of old complaints and then we aren't actually reconnecting afterwards. It's just argue argue argue. A lot of "You said 'this'" "Well, I said 'this' because you did 'that'" "Well, I did 'that' because you did the 'other'" and so on.

My landlord is starting to wonder what I am going to do about purchasing this house. My favorite prairie dog is on her death bed. Real estate is a struggle. I feel like I am about to crack under the pressure.

The one thing I will say about the C is that it appears she is trying to see if he has a fear of intimacy. Her observation is that when we get closer to each other, he will shut down and move away. Which in turn, makes me go towards him more and then he feels smothered or that I am needy. The question is- why does he get fearful when we get close? C thinks that he has a fear of disappointing me/not being 'enough' and also that I will disappoint him/not be 'enough' for him.

He said he doesn't want to commit until he is 110% sure that is what he wants. And he is definitely not ready to do that. OH, and he said that one on one, we are great, but out in the world, as a couple, we aren't "that" couple that everyone wants to be. I pointed out that in Costa Rica, yes we were. When we were going to the karaoke place, yes we were. We haven't had much exposure as a couple since I started the thyroid meds to actual friends. Not to mention-- per his own words, he was checked out. How can we be "that couple" (consistently) when he is checked out? (I didn't get to make that point in counseling, but I think I will next time.)

I have to admit, when he talks about his perception of things, even I feel discouraged and hopeless, so how can I expect him not to? OTOH, I think he is overlooking the recent past and thus, probably jumping to the wrong conclusion or fearful of things he need not be.