PM Thread #4

[hope3343]

My IC and DB coach suggested that I take some time away when he is with kids and I have. It has backfired in that he gets so mad at me for leaving. Gives me dirty looks and snaps at me when I come home. I don't want to live with that tension anymore so after about five/six tries, I haven't tried it again. But I know our C wants it in our agreement that he will have the kids to himself every second Sunday. So we will see how that works. then the other Sundays would be 'family days'.

Hi PM, I know you don't want to rock the boat and I understand what you are saying, BUT your H knows what buttons to push with you and takes advantage of your good nature. H gets mad and you do more of the same. I know you want to keep the peace, but H does need to realize what the future will be like. Right now it is status quo. He can pretend that it is one happy family and he has your help with the kids.

When I threated my H with exposure he exploded. He threatened never to talk with me again and to make everything as ugly as possible. That is not what I want, even if we D, I want an amicable D because I value peace above all else. I don't want to turn into a bitter resentful person because of this. I want to be a better person, not one who wants revenge.

Of course he would explode. It is exposing the dirty secret at work and maybe start to make him accountable. This is not about revenge but company policy. If this A dies a natural death, the OW can go holler to company "sexual harrassment" and end up opening a whole nother can of worms. In my case yes, I work there but I know that OW has put in multiple sue cases for car accidents, liability at work etc. Because these OP have no morals or accountability they will turn on the WS once things go sour.

More importantly as long as H sees the OW at work he has his "fix". He is addicted to the A and she is there waiting for him everyday.

I think the reason that I want my H has mainly to do with me, not with him particularly. I am very very old-fashioned. I believe in commitment and vows and love. I believe that unless there is serious abuse (which there isn't in our case) that there is no obstacle big enough to that two people can't overcome. That love often does flow and ebb. That relationships are not perfect ALL the time. That love is not about what my H is offering to me or fulfilling in me but what I can do for him and what we together can do for our family and our extended families. I look at it from the angle of 'I have made a commitment for life, I want the best for all of our families.

Call me silly but I was very much in love with my H and still am, just not this lying cheating man. I don't ask for very much, I am not a very demanding wife. I just like being with him and being his companion and that is what I miss most about him now. His companionship. I am not afraid of being alone. I have always done things by myself.

I don't miss our negative interactions, they were few and far in between but it was more than he could take. H hated any sort of conflict or confrontation. I believe in talking things out so there were no misunderstandings. I think if we knew where we stood and neither of us meant any harm then we could get past so many issues. He just saw the conflicts as signs of unhappiness on my part and he felt helpless and inadequate to 'make me happy'. I just wanted him to listen and understand.

Hi PM, this part I understand perfectly. Like you I am old fashioned and wanted this M for life. My old H is gone and he is replaced with an alien life form. Even an e-mail is very formal. I hate it.

But I do want my M back, not the M that H walked out of but the way it should be. None of us should settle for less. I know I have taken a much stronger stand but we both want the same - our M reconciled. Do I want this D, absolutely not; we have no choice but we can decide when WE have had enough. I know people that have gotten D and reconciled and remarried. We are on God's plan not our own timetable. I am willing to wait. I understand DBing, Plan A, and Plan B. I do know Plan B is better for me right now because every time I saw or talked to H, it gave him a reason to say "I am too controlling, I am too emotional" or anything for an excuse to put me in a bad light.
Now that I have gone dark, he has asked both my SIL and D28 about me in the past 2 weeks. Believe it or not they do miss us or the routine of us. And by doing that is keeping my sanity.

We are all rooting for you here, but in some of your posts I can feel your discouragement and feeling lost.

[sandi2]

Hi PM, I really have not saved up spit, so don't worry about one of my looong posts to you. Just mainly wanted to stop in and see how things were going. I am not here to judge your techniques but it does bother me when I see a person who I feel is being emotionally blackmailed. I have personally known people that get their way by getting mad, not speaking, whatever they know will make the OP feel bad enough not to replay whatever it was that they didn't like. For an example, when you went dark, when you threaten to expose the A, when you even leave him alone with the kids while you have a chance to do something else. I see that as more than controlling and selfish. Not knowing him, it makes him sound like a very selfish person and to the point that he doesn't even want to be alone with his own children. That blows me away!

Well, I hope for your sake that you know what you are doing b/c he certainly has everything going "his way". You are a much better person than I ever could be to sit at home and allow him to have his affair while he keeps you under his thumb. He has the best of both worlds. But, if you think waiting it out and hoping that the man you M shows up some day ready to come back home.....I hope it happens, however, you know yourself by reading the MLC forum that it could be years and it still may never happen. I know you want to do almost anything to have peace, but you have to ask yourself if you are happy, sweetie. You do deserve happiness. I'm not telling you to run file for a D. Not at all. Just want you to not be a doormat for him and to feel good about yourself and to be happy. If you are, then that is good enough for me.

Take care,
Sandi

[PositivelyMommy]

Hey Hope and Sandi, thanks for stopping by. I really really want to wait this out until he is over his A and then see how we feel about each other when he is off the 'love high'. But I feel like I am putting my life on hold. You see, my family lives elsewhere and I would love to move back to the same city as them, where my parents, my brother and his family all live. I would like my children to grow up with the extended family if they can't have their dad around. I'd like solid role models for them to look up to, male and female. I also enjoy living near my family where I can get their emotional support and I can give them support in return in times of stress or ill health or whatever. If I stay in the same city as my husband, I cannot do those things. I would have to fly back and forth. Plus right now, my H is very self-centered and thinks he's doing a great job as a dad but is hardly ever around and doesn't bond with the kids, more like a playdate than a parent.

I guess I need more and more patience to wait this A out. That is the encouragement I need, the more I write, the more I realize what I need.

I have always been his greatest cheerleader and friend. I don't want to ditch him in hard times. I believe in my vows, I want to be there in good times and bad regardless of how he treats ME.

Am I happy? No, not particularly, but I need to be true to myself. I would be happy if he snapped out of it and came home to work on our M, but like you all said, there are no promises. I would also be happy if I knew for sure that he WOULDN'T snap out of it then I can move on home with my family and start a new life. But feel right now, I am in limbo. Our pro-M C advises to give this time. He thinks there is a good chance H might reconsider but he is not making any guarantees. So I need some more patience. Maybe till the end of this year. By that time, it would have been almost two years. Maybe I just need a timeframe in mind so I feel I have some sort of control over this mess.

[pollyanna]

Have you read up on the life cycle of affairs or the honeymoon period. i struggle to find much on it. i like you wold be happy if i could get hold of a crystal ball. I could be patient if the outcome was a reunion BUT hey how long is to long to wait.

Anyways i would be interested in any research or stats you may have on this affair sitch.

[PositivelyMommy]

Well, I have talked with my IC on this. He says that the honeymoon period can last up to two years. I know, it's a long wait but I have been with my H for 17 and I plan to live till 90 so in the grand scheme of things....

I think there are cracks happening in the A but can't confirm because he won't talk to me about OW, obviously. So I am just guessing here. But I think it would take a bulldozer to drag him back here because of pride and that he is not a person who wants to admit he has made a mistake, he's a perfectionist and it's just his nature. I know him. So even if the A does go south, I think it would take my H a long time to turn things around. But after all that, the A has to end first, right. Because right now, it's all just speculation.

[karen43]

Am I happy? No, not particularly, but I need to be true to myself. I would be happy if he snapped out of it and came home to work on our M, but like you all said, there are no promises. I would also be happy if I knew for sure that he WOULDN'T snap out of it then I can move on home with my family and start a new life. But feel right now, I am in limbo.

I went through that too. I think you should try to live your life like your H won't be coming back. Make you and your kids as happy as possible. Don't put off anything you want to do b/c your H may come back at some point. I actually do think a good # of WAS will reconsider at some point, and if that happens you can decide what you want to do at that point. Don't worry about that now.

Move if it would be the best for your family, GAL, make yourself happy and don't worry about your H and his MLC behaviors. I'm actually happier now and the past few months than I was in the marriage for years. I'm looking at this as a time to grow stronger, more self confident, happier, healthier and all that. Karen

[sandi2]

Hi PM. I appreciate you explaining your stitch and the feelings you have. You sound like such a strong person. I admire your stand where your vows are concerned and patient in waiting for your H. There is something I read in Karen's post that prompts me to ask you this question. Considering that it does take at least three years for "most" MCL/WAH's to come out of their frame of mind and start to regain a certain amount of normalacy, and after you said that he had so much pride.....I wondered if that meant you would have to add even more time to those three years. In a child's life, that is a long time. What I am trying to get around to asking is, if you were to "drop the rope" as it is written about in the DR book, and move back to where your family is and move forward with your life with your children and extended family......would he come for you after all of the mess is over?

You said you've always been there for him, so he probably expects you to continue to be his best friend even though he is cheating on you and wouldn't think of doing a "real" friend the way he is doing you. So, I'm wondering if that is enabling the affair for him and if he is taking you for granted knowing that you will be there if he decides to ever go back home? What would his reaction be if he saw you suddenly pack you and his children up and move away? You said that you wished he would snap out of it, well there have been reports that that has been what did wake the WAS up to what they were losing when the rope was dropped.

You said you needed encouragement and I sound as if I am encouraging you to get a D and that is not it at all. I am merely asking questions and making possible suggestions for you to think about.....which I'm sure you already have....but still wondered how he would react and if you thought his pride would stop him from going to get you or would it shock him into action. Different things work on different people. As you said, you know him. I just hope you don't waste a lot of years waiting around on him when time is so valuable. I have seen so many women and men on this board wait around hoping for the A to end and when they begin to see "cracks" appear, they would get their hopes up that the A would soon be over. But, what really happened was that their S and OP would play the games of breaking up and making up and it about drove the LBS crazy while the others played out their games. Whatever you decide, I will try to support you and give you encouragement as best as I can. I only hope that you have thought of all the possibilities and all the avenues. You talk about him going through a hard time.....like this affair is a hard thing happening to him. What about you? You are the one he vowed to love and cherish and yet he is disrespecting you like this. Please be sure that what you do is the right route to take. Maybe you are right in that a time limit would be a good thing for you to consider. If by the end of the year you see no bigger hope than you see now, I would want to think you would consider moving back home to your loved ones. It isn't fair to you or (if he isn't being a good father)to the kids.

I did not go out of my way trying to see how much I could hurt your feelings and I feel that my words have probably stung a great deal. Sometimes I don't do well in expressing my heart. You are the one that I want what is best for. There have been success stories where the spouse remained the "friend" and finally drew the WS back, but it is a hard, bumpy road and takes a lot of grit and grace. If you have that, then I pray that your wait won't be as long as most.

I can't remember right now if you said if OW is M or not. If so, does her H know of the A? Does your H worry about being exposed to friends, family and co-workers? Does his family live there? So many questions......I apologize, I should just go back and refresh my memory by reading your first post again.

Well, I'll let you go for now. I hope you can have peace of mind with whatever you decide to do.

Take care,
Sandi

[davidswife]

Oh ((((PM))))),

What Sandi2 said.

Love and prayers,

Stacy

[PositivelyMommy]

......would he come for you after all of the mess is over?


No, I think if I left, that would be it. He would probably think there is no return for sure.


What would his reaction be if he saw you suddenly pack you and his children up and move away?

Unfortunately, I can't just pack and move, it's a long story but trust me, I need at least six to nine months to do it. So if I were to move by the end of the year then I pretty much need to get the ball rolling now.


You said you needed encouragement and I sound as if I am encouraging you to get a D and that is not it at all.

No, I appreciate you asking questions, those are thoughtful and show concern, not judgment. I don't mind.


I just hope you don't waste a lot of years waiting around on him when time is so valuable.

I think at the end of the day, my H does have a soft heart. He has had a turbulent R with his dad but in the end he always want to have a good R with him. So I think he wants to have a civil/good R with me but right now not in the 'I am in love with PM' phase so pretending he is is just not being true to himself. So he would rather go with his 'feelings' and explore and expand his R with OW. I think that's what he thinks. And yes, if I do move, that would light a fire under him but I would do that only if 'I' want to do it for me and the kids, not to manipulate H. I am finding that I am moving more towards this option. I think I would be much more happier living near my family. Just don't really know about timeframe as I don't want to move away if it means he never comes home. But as Karen says, I don't want to put my life on hold either.


I can't remember right now if you said if OW is M or not.
OW is going thru a D. Her H cheated on her many times. No kids. I guess he gave her the STD and then my H gave it to me. I know, I am really bitter about that. But it's gone now forever, hopefully. So her H couldn't care less about her love life.


Does your H worry about being exposed to friends, family and co-workers?
My H does worry about being exposed to his coworkers since they work together. I don't know how much the office knows but I reckon it's not hard to keep under the lid as these things go.

Does his family live there?
His family lives very far away. That's one of the problems, I think. Both our families live far away so there is no 'society' to monitor his behavior. His peers are his coworkers, no friends. All his coworkers have dysfunctional marriages as well, many of them fool around as well. So I guess he gradually felt that it is acceptable and not out of the ordinary though he is still ashamed. His M won't take sides and she won't stand up for our M. It's a shame but he is her only child and she doesn't want to lose him so she won't say anything to guide him.

[Can it work]

{{{{PM}}}}

It sounds as though you've gotten to another crossroads in the grand scheme of life? I can feel the pain and indecision in your words and know that you're obviously very torn at the moment.

I think without a doubt, you know in your heart that moving to be with your family is the best thing for you (right now). Nobody should have to go through what you are right now. You've already proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to everyone who knows you and even to those following your sitch on here that you've been the most amazingly patient, caring woman. You've always put your children first, and dare I say it, you still treat your husbands feelings with both empathy and sympathy. You have a huge capacity for caring and that shines through in your character. There are times in life though where you have to think about yourself. Well, yourself and your children. It's like Sandi said, how long will it actually take before he wakes up from his current state of mind when you take his pride in to account?

You mention it would take 6-9 months for you to be able to pack up and move to your family. Once the wheels are set in motion, can they not then be stopped? Only you can put a timeframe on this.

If your H snapped out of it when you were living with your family and once again became the man you love, would that man not then do everything in his power to regain his kids? Obviously I don't know your H and can only go by what you tell me but it seems to me that he must have once been a very good man to you and your wee ones. I would like to consider myself a good man and know that if my W moved away with my son, I'd do everything in my power to be there with him regardless of whether I was with my W. Your H might not be that man right now but after the fog has cleared, I would be surprised if it was as over as you seem to think it will be if you're living with your family.

Like Sandi, I'm sorry if I've said anything to upset you. That isn't my intention. I want the best for you. You've been so strong for me since I started posting and I want to be able to help you in whatever way I can. My advice and opinion might be way off mark but it does come from the heart. Be strong.

Kev