WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 2

[confusedinpa]

She's still pushing for this so obviously what you're doing isn't working. Do something different. Don't worry about her not wanting to come back once you're separated. It's a chance you take and in the mindset she's in now, she's not planning to come back anyway. When you make the decision, it'll make her rethink things. Right now she feels like you've forced her to go for a divorce, well, show her you support her by giving her a pseudo one. Make her WANT to come back.

Stuck,

I'm really torn on pushing for the separation. I know she wants to leave me and filing for divorce is her way of doing it.

My therapist, who is also our counselor, feels that at this emotional point if she leaves, she won't come back. I believe her as my wife is very strong willed. She would have to try and work on our marriage for so many years. It was at least 2-3 years that I really can remember her trying so hard. She would change her hair, clothes, exercise, diet, playful notes, lingere, toys for the bed, weekend/overnite get aways (which I only made time for 1), etc. All through that I completely missed the point of what she was trying to do. Our counselor made the discovery last nite that I was in such a depressed state, that it took something this traumatic to snap me out of my emotionless state. It prevented me from being able to respond to any of it.

Very sad for me and very frustrating for her. I should know as I really feel the roles are reversed.

I get frustrated at points but need to remind myself that it has just been over 5 weeks.

I think in my case, if she pushed for separation, that might have been traumatic enough to snap me out of it.

In this case, she's felt so unloved and uncared for that she's angry and hurt. Unfortunately, our counselor pretty much absolved her of all the blame when she said there was nothing my wife could do to snap me out of a depressed state. She also said that in my depressed state, she would have perscribed me meds to help me out of it. Unfortunately, our previous marriage counselor didn't pick up on any of this, nor did my wife and I.

I still don't know if it's true or not, but I clearly see I was in some kind of funk over the years.

I know she doesn't trust that this is the real me and the last several years (which is the majority of our marriage) was not the real me. She says that since it's all that she's known, she feels there isn't much to build on. She acknowleded that the 20 months of dating/engagement prior to the marriage was wonderful (otherwise she wouldn't have married me), but it just happened so fast that I fell into the funk.

Last nite when I brought up trying to create positive memories, she felt that's what we're doing now. I hope that she really believes that and is trying.

She said a couple of weeks ago that she wants the custody hearing because she feels that she's trapped and can't leave without one. That's why I'm so torn on the custody hearing.

My lawyer and therapist has said to try and delay and not agree to one as they believe that she will leave as soon as she gets it. I'm afraid of that too, but know that if I just make her feel trapped, she will just leave when she ultimately gets it.

I guess that's where I do agree with you, I have a feeling my best move is to be reasonable during the custody hearing and if she is reasonable, that the greatest gift I can give the woman I love is the freedom to leave. I just hope that if she does leave, in time she will see what she's missing now and come back.

Hope is all I have.

[MrBond]

Trust me. Hope is not all you have. Time is what you have.

I admit that the separation is a tricky thing, but it may be the shock she needs to jolt her out of her funk just like you did with yours. Plus she can't keep putting the blame on you as to how miserable her life is.

Again, the separation does not mean D. And besides both of you will be doing things together with your kids, so it's not like you're never to see her. Give her some real alone time. Let her miss you.

Right now, I just see your M slowly slipping deeper and deeper because it's obvious she's getting colder and colder. You have to do something drastic before her temperament freezes over and you don't have anything left.

[confusedinpa]

Trust me. Hope is not all you have. Time is what you have.

I admit that the separation is a tricky thing, but it may be the shock she needs to jolt her out of her funk just like you did with yours. Plus she can't keep putting the blame on you as to how miserable her life is.

Again, the separation does not mean D. And besides both of you will be doing things together with your kids, so it's not like you're never to see her. Give her some real alone time. Let her miss you.

Right now, I just see your M slowly slipping deeper and deeper because it's obvious she's getting colder and colder. You have to do something drastic before her temperament freezes over and you don't have anything left.

I don't feel that time is on my side as the divorce clock is ticking and there is about 98 weeks before it becomes final.

The kids is another factor that I have to deal with - it will be hard on my 2 and 6 year old.

I have gotten the sense that you have picked up as well - she's slipping deeper and deeper. I know I have to do something radical. I was hoping the break through we made in counseling, the diagnosis of my depression and the reassurance by the counselor that this is the real me, could be a shock.

One thing that had changed last nite when we were talking in bed, before she said it make her feel ackward/uncomfortable when I touched her at all when we were in bed. Last nite she said she was ok when I touched her back, hair or if I was giving her a full body massage. Who knows, probably means nothing, which is why I'm not going to overanalyze it.

Perhaps the custody hearing and having a custody agreement is the shock she will need.

Either way, I know the right thing to do is to come to a reasonable agreement. If she leaves right away, then so be it. I won't help her leave, but I won't ask her to stay. I will continue to work on me and will continue to be the best person (whether as just a father or as a husband and a father) I can be, regardless of the circumstances.

I must remain strong and appreciate everyone's encouragement and wisdom.

[lynn08]

I was in the same boat as you not too long ago. Nothing was getting better and I realized there was nothing that I could do to make him change his mind.

I fought everyone on here when they told me that I should ask my H to leave, but I finally did it. Its not as scary as you think...and besides..she wants a D anyways, right? So what do you have to loose really? Like stuck said, somehow you have to make her miss you. I too am afraid that separation will push my H further away, but its just a chance I take. Nothing was changing anyway and if he thinks he wants a D so bad then he needs to see what being D is going to be like.

My H is stubborn as well, and everyone was telling me if he left he wouldn't come back. well, we will see about that. Ever since I told him to leave, we have had several dates, lots of phone calls, and we have been getting along great. He even finally told me that he does love me after 4 months of denying he does and on and on and on....

Nothing is a guarantee, but if you don't change anything and don't make things a little harder on her, then nothing is going to change.

Hope I dont sound too harsh, but I am saying this because I felt the same way as you. I invite you to read my first thread if you have time and there is some great advice in there too....

[AnotherNightmare]

Ironically, my wife sees that she's turned me into a different person that has neglected her over the years.

Does she actually say that she feels responsible for that? If yes, how does she say she did it?

Unfortunately, she just doesn't know how to get past all the past hurt/pain. Sounds like your wife had made the leap. Did retrouvaille help her feel optimistic about love again or did she have it before the weekend? Just curious how it happened.

I am sure my wife has not gotten over the pain yet. And that will still take a while (for me, too). She told me that she agreed to come to Retrouvaille, because she wanted a better relationship with me to protect the kids from the consequences of an ugly divorce. She wanted a friendly divorce and a co-parenting relationship. I am very sure that this was truly her objective.
But I guess she noticed what has been happening to me during the weekend and since then. It is like everybody here says: the WAS does notice. And once they see what they truly want, I guess they start feeling optimistic about loving their S again. This is speculation on my part, because we have not talked about why yet. We never may. That is the one thing about Retrouvaille: you talk about feelings, you do not try to justify why you have them.

I think I've been feeling needy but over the last few weeks, I've found that I've been doing more of my own laundry (as well as the kids and towels). Not sure if she's doing it intentionally as in the past she had expressed she felt like she was just a housekeeper or if she's just so preoccupied with the situation that she's just hasnt really kept an eye on it.

It is not really the household chores that tell whether you are needy or not. My W asked me not to do them during the last 3 months, because they showed my neediness. I did them because I needed her back.
I believe it is a state of mind. I tell you a little conversation we had Sunday night. At one point last year or so I had left my shoes on the floor in the washer room and had not put them on the shelf where they belong. So my W asked me to put them there. I replied: "Why? The kids leave their shoes on the floor, too." When she told me that, I looked at her in total disbelief ("Did I really say that?") and we both started to laugh.
I had put myself on the same needy level as my children. And I did not even realize it.
She said it is not that she does not want to do the chores for me. She loves to do something for me, if she feels sure I do not expect it. And she wants me to do the chores, because I want to be part of the team, not because I think I owe her.

Do you notice the difference?

AN

[confusedinpa]

Jennlynnb08

The biggest part I struggle with is the kids. If it wasn't for them, I would have let her go after I got past my 2 weeks of panic/begging/pleading/crying

I see the difference in how she now says we're friends (with one hitting on the other) vs before she couldn't stand to my sight. I guess its part of her dream of being friends so we co-parent nicely

I also see how she had grown further during weeks 3-4 like she was bidding her time. We are talking more each day. So its hard to say if I'm doing the right things or not

I do suspect that if I fight to delay the custody agreement, she will feel trapped and leave as soon as she gets it

I just hope I am doing the right thing

I appreciate your support and wish you the best in your situation