Okay, blowback time. MIL is circling the wagons, throwing out her own claims of abuse, and insinuating that I molested my daughter. She has no evidence - she's just saying it.
Going to be fun times I guess.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I sent this email to my wife regarding EA/PA, this is the last thing I'm going to communicate in regards to it - but wanted to put it out there considering she's denying and coming up with random excuses that are easily shot down.
Originally Posted By: DCBHM
This is the last time I'm going to bring it up unless you choose that you are prepared to discuss it with me, but I wanted to put my feelings out there so that you understand.
First: I know that you've had a relationship outside of our marriage for at least the past several months. Whether it was physical/emotional/both - there is no denying the effect it has had on our marriage. The damage was caused, and the innocence was lost when you began having to lie about it in order to continue it. If you have to lie or make excuses - it isn't innocent. I hope you take responsibility for your part in our marriage breakdown. If you are communicating with someone else instead of your spouse - something is wrong. Regardless of what our problems were - you should have put your energy into correcting them and building our marriage up instead of tearing it down.
Second: I am willing to accept responsibility for my part. I wasn't supportive enough emotionally, I wasn't home enough, and I don't feel like we were able to communicate well enough. I am willing to understand that you needed a certain type of support - I just disagree where you chose to go for that support. You had a baby, your father died, we were having problems, and this relationship is something that just happened. I'm not going to judge you as a person - but I don't feel like this is a healthy decision. I'm not going to tell you that you are a horrible person - but I'm willing to sit and listen to you if you ever want to talk about it.
Third: Emotionally I'm sure you feel like a new person. You feel the romance, the newness, and the attraction phase is surely intoxicating. But you also feel the guilt. You feel the shame. You feel the things that will still remain when the attraction wears off. An affair is a selfish behavior that puts your feelings over the love of your husband, children, family - and even your own sense of morality and decency. I'm concerned about you, because I truly do care about you and want you to be happy. Our marriage can end here - but it doesn't have to.
Fourth: How does it make me feel? I want what is best for my family, and I want what is best for you. I'm sad because I hate to see you going through this. I'm sad because I hate to see things happening that are going to affect our children down the road. I'm sad because I hate to see you hurting, I hate to see you feeling guilty, I hate to see you feeling ashamed, I hate the empty look I see when I look in your eyes. I'm sad because the W I married isn't the same person standing before me. The W I married was proud of what she did every day. The W I married never had a reason to lie about anything. The W I married put our children first and foremost before she ever thought about herself. The W I married would never have been in a position where she had to defend her behavior with lies and excuses. The W I married would never have thought about using D to punish me for perceived wrongs. The W I married didn't have an angry bone in her body.
--------------------------------------------------------- The most important thing I want you to keep in mind: Even though I know, it doesn't mean I don't love you or want what is best for you. I want you to be happy, and I want us to work together for the benefit of our daughter. D will benefit from both of us working together, and collaborating for her future. We don't have to be husband and wife to do that... but we can't be stuck fighting each other either.
If you ever choose to come to me with the truth - I promise that I won't hold it over your head. I won't make you out to be a horrible person. I won't drag you through the mud. I promise you the same thing I promised when we discussed things with our pastor - 100% cooperation either way. Whether we work on our marriage, or we divorce - we need to work together for the sake of our daughter.
Just keep it in mind... and if you don't want to talk about it that is fine. If you do - please come with an open heart and prepared to be honest. I'm tired of the lies. The lies hurt worse than knowing what has happened.
Ultimately just look within yourself. Are you proud of what is happening and what has happened? If not... I hope you use your head to overcome the confusion in your heart and bring us back from the precipice.
Otherwise... I hope you move past your anger, and we can get to a point where we can come up with a reasonable agreement with D - and work together as parents.
I will be praying for you, as I have been every night. Take care of yourself. I do love our family, and I haven't given up on it. I hope you have a wonderful day at work.
So... now I'm going to be focusing on myself/legal issue/checking on my daughter. Anyone have opinions on what I wrote?
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
It's obviously heartfelt, and it's not a bad idea to be "on the record" about where you stand. Just don't look for it to do any good; you can't teach someone who's having an affair. You also seem to be more trying to SHAME her from trying to relate YOUR feelings or deliver any simple "truth darts."
I sent this email to my wife regarding EA/PA, this is the last thing I'm going to communicate in regards to it - but wanted to put it out there considering she's denying and coming up with random excuses that are easily shot down.
Originally Posted By: DCBHM
This is the last time I'm going to bring it up unless you choose that you are prepared to discuss it with me, but I wanted to put my feelings out there so that you understand.
First: I know that you've had a relationship outside of our marriage for at least the past several months. Whether it was physical/emotional/both - there is no denying the effect it has had on our marriage. The damage was caused, and the innocence was lost when you began having to lie about it in order to continue it. If you have to lie or make excuses - it isn't innocent. I hope you take responsibility for your part in our marriage breakdown. If you are communicating with someone else instead of your spouse - something is wrong. Regardless of what our problems were - you should have put your energy into correcting them and building our marriage up instead of tearing it down.
Second: I am willing to accept responsibility for my part. I wasn't supportive enough emotionally, I wasn't home enough, and I don't feel like we were able to communicate well enough. I am willing to understand that you needed a certain type of support - I just disagree where you chose to go for that support. You had a baby, your father died, we were having problems, and this relationship is something that just happened. I'm not going to judge you as a person - but I don't feel like this is a healthy decision. I'm not going to tell you that you are a horrible person - but I'm willing to sit and listen to you if you ever want to talk about it.
Third: Emotionally I'm sure you feel like a new person. You feel the romance, the newness, and the attraction phase is surely intoxicating. But you also feel the guilt. You feel the shame. You feel the things that will still remain when the attraction wears off. An affair is a selfish behavior that puts your feelings over the love of your husband, children, family - and even your own sense of morality and decency. I'm concerned about you, because I truly do care about you and want you to be happy. Our marriage can end here - but it doesn't have to.
Fourth: How does it make me feel? I want what is best for my family, and I want what is best for you. I'm sad because I hate to see you going through this. I'm sad because I hate to see things happening that are going to affect our children down the road. I'm sad because I hate to see you hurting, I hate to see you feeling guilty, I hate to see you feeling ashamed, I hate the empty look I see when I look in your eyes. I'm sad because the W I married isn't the same person standing before me. The W I married was proud of what she did every day. The W I married never had a reason to lie about anything. The W I married put our children first and foremost before she ever thought about herself. The W I married would never have been in a position where she had to defend her behavior with lies and excuses. The W I married would never have thought about using D to punish me for perceived wrongs. The W I married didn't have an angry bone in her body.
--------------------------------------------------------- The most important thing I want you to keep in mind: Even though I know, it doesn't mean I don't love you or want what is best for you. I want you to be happy, and I want us to work together for the benefit of our daughter. D will benefit from both of us working together, and collaborating for her future. We don't have to be husband and wife to do that... but we can't be stuck fighting each other either.
If you ever choose to come to me with the truth - I promise that I won't hold it over your head. I won't make you out to be a horrible person. I won't drag you through the mud. I promise you the same thing I promised when we discussed things with our pastor - 100% cooperation either way. Whether we work on our marriage, or we divorce - we need to work together for the sake of our daughter.
Just keep it in mind... and if you don't want to talk about it that is fine. If you do - please come with an open heart and prepared to be honest. I'm tired of the lies. The lies hurt worse than knowing what has happened.
Ultimately just look within yourself. Are you proud of what is happening and what has happened? If not... I hope you use your head to overcome the confusion in your heart and bring us back from the precipice.
Otherwise... I hope you move past your anger, and we can get to a point where we can come up with a reasonable agreement with D - and work together as parents.
I will be praying for you, as I have been every night. Take care of yourself. I do love our family, and I haven't given up on it. I hope you have a wonderful day at work.
So... now I'm going to be focusing on myself/legal issue/checking on my daughter. Anyone have opinions on what I wrote?
My opinion is that you are only hurting yourself in the long run.
1) She can't hear you through the fog. You are wasting your breath trying to reach her.
2) Admitting guilt ("Second") in a written medium while she is "circling the wagons" was not a wise move. If your D gets adversarial (most do), you WILL see these words come back to haunt you.
3) Any guilt or "sense of morality" ("Third") she may have had BEFORE her A are not there now. Her sub conscience has made sure of that by re-writing your marital history and turning you into some kind of wife-beating, child-abusing troll. See #1.
4) You are talking down to her in pretty much every paragraph. She is fogged, but not dumb. She gets THIS message ("I am better than you") loud and clear.
Look, I am not beating you up here. I am on your side if there is one, but I want you to take a cold hard look at where you are and what you are doing. I know you are hurting, I have been there too but right now I think the best thing for you is to stop communicating with her until you have a better game plan.
Good luck.
H: 38 W: 36 S: 8 S: 5 M: 16 Bomb: 8/25/08 OM: 9/21/08 EA (Possible PA) with co-worker since 5/08 (at least...) Sep: 9/21/08 D Filed 9/23/08 My Situation
1. Blood is thicker than water. Period. You can't really use her family to shame her or econonmically starve her into going back to you. Revealing your legal game plan to them is foolhardy.
2. She's in a fog now. You can't scare her into coming back.
3. She drew first blood and made it a legal custody battle.
4. It's hard to DB WHILE you are fighting for custody.
5. Stop trying to use the affair to leverage her family against her and try to make her come back to you. You either DB OR you fight.
Here are my thoughs:
1. Stop talking to her family.
2a. Use the affair as legal leverage to get shared custody from her if that's what you want.
OR
2b. Get total custody and fight for your daughter.
3. Worry about saving the marriage AFTER the custody is decided.
I had sort of begun working my way through that logic and it is good to see it in writing.
I appreciate your candor, and will follow your advice. I will note that I'm not trying to scare her into coming back... I basically want her to clear up her thinking so that we can work through a reasonable settlement instead of her going crazy every time she receives a piece of paper my lawyer files.
No matter what I do though, it always ends up being turned around and used against me. I told her this morning what I'd settle with custody-wise if her attorney offered it. Haven't heard anything yet - but I'm willing to bet no deal is offered.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Talk to your lawyer about preventing a claim of physical abuse. There are some things you need to protecy youself.
Remember, youe wife is no longer a Christian, and no longer operates with ANY moral compass. Ever see an opera? Falling in love can lead people to betrayal and murder.
Talk to your lawyer about preventing a claim of physical abuse. There are some things you need to protecy youself.
Remember, youe wife is no longer a Christian, and no longer operates with ANY moral compass. Ever see an opera? Falling in love can lead people to betrayal and murder.
--Theoden
I've cut off all alone time with her. I only meet in public places. I've pretty much told her that I do not want to be alone at all with her. I'm going to let my lawyers do what they do... I've given them a lot of ammunition and I'm sure I'll get lots more the further it moves along.
I just send her a text message every evening asking about my daughter. Going to leave it at that for a while.
And yeah... her moral compass is pretty much gone... which is sad because she was the most trustworthy person I'd ever met for the longest time... till the A started. Then it gradually went downhill.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
