WAW: Watching & Waiting (part deux)

[Bridgestone]

As I told you we men, or atleast me, can accept that my actions were/ are bad because they can be changed

The question I, & some other women I know have; when does the underlying philosophy of WHY you do or don't do something change, so the action (or lack of that action) is in alignment with philosophy?If thoughts precede behaviours, then should the thoughts that dictate the behaviours change as well?

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you are asking but I think what you and the other ladies want to know is when do we men start taking responsibility for our actions and correct them not just because you want us to but because we are aware they are wrong and are not happy with them and want to change and grow as a person for us, correct.

yep.. that was what I wanted to know. We all want validation from our loved ones that an action we take 'matters' to that special someone. I can change a lot of behaviours if it adds to their happiness and still be true to my core values.

I don't want to have to 'train' a partner. I want an open exchange & collaboration for how two people can negotiate the chaos of day-to-day life of jobs, kids, bills, health, aging parents, sex, household chores, etc and still feel good about themselves & each other at the end of the day.

I think I was just ready to change and to do whatever it takes to save my M. However my C made me realize along with the books that I was reading at the time that I must improve myself first.

exactly...

You and the other ladies need to realize as I need to also that we cannot force our S to change or to improve themselves.

I agree we can't force it. But we can ask for those changes, we state what we want, and as Cookie says you can respond with a yes, no or sucks to be you. If you say 'yes', then I can support, encourage, provide feedback, be the best me I can be so we can be healthy together and see what kind of R we can create based on compassionate, kind, caring interactions instead of resentful, angry, devaluing ones.

I don’t know exactly what made me wake up and I don’t know what will make your H wake up but as long as you see improvement in how he treats you and if he is starting to take responsibility for his actions then I say that he is slowly waking up. We men are thick and it takes a lot to get us to look at ourselves and to change ourselves but once we do get started and are aware of the problem we are very good at doing what is necessary to make the M/R work. At least I am. If they admit there is a problem and see their roll in it then I say you are both well on your way to improving your R.

I have hope you are right.

What I'm also looking for is an understanding for when it appropriate to examine someone else's motivation or philosophy about 'why' they do something.

I'm looking for more than 'dog training'.

I want to be intimate enough with a partner to share openly & honestly our repsective 'why's'.

To be able to discuss differences and moderate accordingly. If the differences are too big & moderation becomes excessive.. that to me is where there are 'irreconcilable differences' in an R.

You are not trying to train a dog

I agree 100% see above bold quote

and I think a lot of times that is how women view us men.

When we (or at least me) hear "just tell me what to do & I'll do it.. anything to shut you up" am I taking the power/control or is he giving it up??

It’s a vicious cycle of control, power and resistance we all get into.

uh-huh... see above

This is where communication comes in I understand your problem here with communicating with us because we are very thick and get stuck in a routine and its hard for us to get out of. But there is a better way then “trying to train us” as you put it.

again i agree.. but how do we help you 1- recognize it's a routine & 2- help you get out of it.. without coming across at controlling?? I hear you say above, we just have to wait until you come to that realization on your own??

How you do that I cannot say

damnit.. you were suppose to have the answer!!

Both parties need to be willing to change how we interact with each other if anything is going to change. Also both people need to realize that there are things we are not going to understand about each other but have to accept them as they way it is. We all need to learn to look past the words and see the true meaning behind them and not take such offense to what is being said.

That's why the Stosny stuff, I think makes so much sense..I want to be intimate enough with a partner to share openly & honestly our repsective 'why's'. To be able to discuss differences and moderate accordingly. If the differences are too big & moderation becomes excessive.. that to me is where there are 'irreconcilable differences' in an R.

sounds about the same to me.

but from what you have posted and said to me it sounds like you are doing a good job of trying to get him to understand this. You need to be patient

.. yep, patience.. I'm thinking of changing my stripper name to Penelope Patience

Thanks for exchange I appreciate your view point too.
Peace
Bridge