it can be done in a nonthreatening tone. It doesn't have to be cease and desist or else.
Absolutely. You can approach this any way you want. I think your email idea is a good one...your W seems to feel comfortable communicating to you in this way. I also think wrapping it in the context of IC might be a good way to get the point across, especially since she is expecting to see results in the intimacy department through the counseling.
I think you are fully capable of putting forth the idea that "the counselor" thinks you might be "unconsciously" resisting physical connection because *you* have a difficult time trusting her with that part of you when you have insecurities over her lack of acceptance of you and her sleeping elsewhere habits. She might take offense at that at first, but if she really wants the issue to improve, it's not a difficult thing to understand.
I also think it would be a good thing to start finding ways to build respect and confidence in yourself...she'll never respect you more than you do.
You're right: it doesn't have to all or nothing unless/until you decide you want it to be. I learned a long time ago that ultimatums are absolutely ineffective with my H, and I have to say that complicates my life a lot at times. But he is who he is and I am who I am, no other R is like ours. It's my choice to find ways to work with our unique challenges. I know you are making the same choice, and it's a lot easier said than done.
Aud, I sent an email to my W yesterday and titled it "Relationship Notes." I told her that I thought about my recent IC session and wanted her to know my current thoughts. I then proceeded to tell her about the importance of respectful communication, and that I wanted to get the R to a point so that she didn't feel the need to sleep elsewhere.
This morning we had a difficult live conversation. She was able to share in a respectful tone her pain of not having intimacy in the M. She still managed to focus on all of my failings, and overemphasized the past, but there was more disclosure, self-restraint, and pain revealed.
I listened as nondefensively as I could, and said very little. I was trying to be nonreactive. I'll follow-up with comments today via email. I told her that I lack the skills to process and respond during the moment.
We'll likely exchange emails during the day. I'll see if she wants to connect when I get home from work. I'm going to need to check on a daily basis if she wants to connect.
She's still not validating my requests, but acted respectfully during the conversation.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Aud, This is going to be a difficult day. My W's emails and phone message state that she didn't feel listened to or validated.
She wants me to talk in a way many men aren't comfortable with or capable of talking. I think there is a gender gap issue going on here.
I'll let today happen, and let my W say and do what she's going to do.
The email needed to be sent. I needed to ask for respectful communication and to addresss the sleeping elsewhere. She's highly frustrated with the M at this point, and the lack of intimacy and attention from me. She said that things are getting worse.
I'll get home after work and see if there is opportunity to connect.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Good luck CL. I'm sorry she seems to be gearing up for another hissy fit. You did need to put your needs out there, it's not like they're UNREASONABLE or even UNDOABLE by any stretch.
FWIW, from an objective observer, she's following a pattern, almost like a choreographed dance: you make a request, she blusters and attempts to deflect responsibility, then it blows over after you lay (lie?) low for awhile. Maybe it won't blow over this time, but honestly CL: I think you're doing your part to help solve the problem, and unfortunately, you can't do it entirely on your own.
You don't have to demand all-or-nothing.
It wouldn't hurt to do what you can muster to increase the physical attention she is needing (I get keyed up and frustrated when I don't get enough attention myself, so I can kind of understand a part of where she's coming from, though if she's getting it elsewhere, I lose sympathy for her. Sorry.)...simple non-sexual touch can be enough to alleviate some of the anxiety.
Have you read Men are from Mars Women are from Venus? It seems like you and your wife both should read it!
I know my ex and I miscommunicated so much. He would say, "I'm going out to __________"and then as an after thought he'd say "oh, do you want to come?" I told him I'd rather he say he wanted to go out WITH ME and we could decide together what to do. He said I was silly. It is very easy to miscommunicate!!!
Maybe it won't blow over this time, but honestly CL: I think you're doing your part to help solve the problem, and unfortunately, you can't do it entirely on your own.
I seemed to say everything wrong, when I got home. She was reactive to everything I said.
Her complaint was that I failed to validate what she was trying to say this morning. She did compliment me on staying with the difficult conversation, in a respectful manner.
She went to bed early, saying that she has so much to offer, and that I fail to appreciate it. I emailed her again, trying to paraphrase what I thought were her primary requests--listening, being more attentive, being present, improved sexual skill, compliments on her appearance.
She wrote that she is saddened by the deterioration of our M.
As you can see there was no opportunity to connect. She said there will be no re-connection until I validate what she was trying to say this morning.
I'm going to work on letting things happen and accept that her choices and reactions are beyond my control.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Matilda, I haven't read that book yet, It certainly seems like a gender communication gap going on here.
I'm reading DB again. There is a section on communication between the genders. We're wired to communicate differently. It seems like she wants me to talk like a woman.
Communication is so frustrating. I'd hate to see a M end over miscommunication, when the issues are solvable problems (IMO).
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Good luck! If only your wife would just tell you she wanted to work on things as a team. I have a feeling it's been awhile since she validated anything you were saying....but I doubt she thinks SHE has any problem communicating.
I remember taking Mars/Venus book on a vacation and I read parts out loud to my H. I felt like the book had been written just for us.....but maybe it's for you, too.
Matilda, I've taken down the Mars and Venus book from my shelf and will give it a try, as it's relevant to my situation.
I wrote to my W in a morning email about the inherent communication struggles of men and woman, to try to frame our conflict as normal. She wants some space for now, and wants to go to a dance venue on Wednesday, to get a break from me. I wrote her that I'll respect her space, and to let me know when she's ready to connect.
I read a poem this morning about how beauty continues to exist in the world despite the weight of our worries and preoccupations. The poet wrote a soliloquy about observing birds flying over water. My sheep puppy dog provides the same experience.
I have an eerie mixture of calmness and restlessness this morning. I think I'm growing from this drama, and my skills are increasing. I feel confident about my ability to face this situation. Fear is diminishing.
It's like the scene in the Wizard of Oz where they no longer are afraid of the man behind the curtain. I'm becoming less afraid of my W behind her defensive space suit. I'm also contemplating taking my space suit off.
Space suit is a simile from author Tara Brach, for defensive patterns that we think will protect us from harm and unpleasantness.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Aud and Matilda, My W said that she doesn't want to pursue any more conversations with me for now (probably a good idea, the timing seems to be wrong). She told me that I have problems with defensiveness and communication.
Going to IC gives me a vehicle to discuss my issues with her and show that I'm working on them. As DB suggests, any changes in the system will likely influence the partner, so I'm not going to worry about the lack of partnership, for now.
I told her that I've ordered a book by Leo Buscaglia on Loving Each Other: The Challenge of Human Relationships from the library. I agreed that I am defensive and need to work on communication and intimacy. I told her that the goal of IC is to develop relationship skills including communication, conflict management, and intimacy (all true).
She's approaching the IC like our R, from a distance while keeping an eye on me.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
