As I told you we men, or atleast me, can accept that my actions were/ are bad because they can be changed
The question I, & some other women I know have; when does the underlying philosophy of WHY you do or don't do something change, so the action (or lack of that action) is in alignment with philosophy?
If thoughts precede behaviours, then should the thoughts that dictate the behaviours change as well?
That's why the Stosny stuff, I think makes so much sense.. not only do you tap into YOUR own core value/hurt and the behaviour you choose based on that, but you take into account your PARTNERS core value/hurt once you understand it.
Your thoughts?
I'm not sure I exactly understand what you are asking but I think what you and the other ladies want to know is when do we men start taking responsibility for our actions and correct them not just because you want us to but because we are aware they are wrong and are not happy with them and want to change and grow as a person for us, correct.
I can only speak for myself but I went through most of my adult life thinking that my sole responsibility was to my family and if we had a house, car, money, stuff and if they were happy than I was a success and that I should be happy. Unfortunately that is not the case because what happened to me is I allowed all these outside influences to dictate not only what I did but how I felt and then in return blamed them for my unhappiness. My W, my job, my boss, my co-workes etc.
I was going through life on cruse control but I was dying on the inside. I knew my W was unhappy and I knew that I was unhappy but I had no idea how to change it. I knew my anger was my main problem and had prayed that I could get it under control but I never really worked at it. I am not sure what went off inside me, it could have been that I was about to turn 40 and I felt so empty and alone that I need to do something about it.
I finally said enough was enough and took my first step in taking back my life. Of course my W giving me the ILYNILWY speech a couple of months later helped also. I started to read books on anger management and relationships. I think I was just ready to change and to do whatever it takes to save my M. However my C made me realize along with the books that I was reading at the time that I must improve myself first.
I had to love myself for others to love me and I did not at that time. You and the other ladies need to realize as I need to also that we cannot force our S to change or to improve themselves. Just as you wish that your H would wake up and realize that R take work and both people need to work not only on the M/R they must work on themselves also, I would like my W to do the same.
I don’t know exactly what made me wake up and I don’t know what will make your H wake up but as long as you see improvement in how he treats you and if he is starting to take responsibility for his actions then I say that he is slowly waking up. We men are thick and it takes a lot to get us to look at ourselves and to change ourselves but once we do get started and are aware of the problem we are very good at doing what is necessary to make the M/R work. At least I am. If they admit there is a problem and see their roll in it then I say you are both well on your way to improving your R.
Originally Posted By: Bridgestone
Originally Posted By: distressed 67
I believe your H probably will feel the same way, just speculating here. But there is a world of difference here trust me and you will get a more positive reaction from him if you make it out as his actions and not him.
No I think you have a point. When I criticize or applaud I need to make it about specific behaviours I have seen him exhibit, not about 'who' he is.
What I'm also looking for is an understanding for when it appropriate to examine someone else's motivation or philosophy about 'why' they do something.
I'm looking for more than 'dog training'. I can train my dog, through rewards & criticisms, to exhibit the behaviour of staying in my yard. He doesn't have to understand the 'why' of the behaviour to exhibit it.
I want to be intimate enough with a partner to share openly & honestly our repsective 'why's'.
To be able to discuss differences and moderate accordingly. If the differences are too big & moderation becomes excessive.. that to me is where there are 'irreconcilable differences' in an R.
Bridge,
I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are not trying to train a dog and I think a lot of times that is how women view us men. Smacking us on the nose with a newspaper (denying us sex/ pulling away) when you think we did not do something you wanted or did something you did not want us to do, is not how to treat a man. The more you try and force the issue or control our behavior the more we will resist and the more frustrated you will become and the more you will pull away and disconnect from us.
It’s a vicious cycle of control, power and resistance we all get into.
This is where communication comes in and why I keep saying to my W that we need to learn how to do this. I understand your problem here with communicating with us because we are very thick and get stuck in a routine and its hard for us to get out of. But there is a better way then “trying to train us” as you put it.
All of us, men and women need to learn that each of us communicate differently and getting across what we actually mean is difficult. I know in my own R that if I say something and my W takes it the wrong way she shuts down and there is nothing I can say or do to get her out of it. And she can say something that I take the wrong way and I get upset. I don’t do that very often anymore because I try and look at what she means over what she is saying.
Both parties need to be willing to change how we interact with each other if anything is going to change. Also both people need to realize that there are things we are not going to understand about each other but have to accept them as they way it is. We all need to learn to look past the words and see the true meaning behind them and not take such offense to what is being said.
How you do that I cannot say but from what you have posted and said to me it sounds like you are doing a good job of trying to get him to understand this. You need to be patient and keep in mind that he has years of doing it his way and it will take time and effort on his and your part to change and come to some sort of compromise that you both can live with.
And to me that is what it comes down to. Each person must give something and compromise in order for the R/M to succeed and move forward. When it turns into a win/ lose situation, one person may win but the ultimate loser is the M/R.
I hope this make some sort of sense and I understand what you were asking.
