There is truth in me stepping it up. The thing is that we have been living in all this doom and gloom for so long that after running around like a maniac trying to convince her that I can be super-husband, I eventually burn-out. Plus it seems like I can do 200 things right and the first thing I do wrong makes all the previous rights null and void. However, the real truth is that I need to make the changes for me and not to impress her. When she says the D word I panic and try to overcome the current situation. I need to really work on making those changes to be a better person all around not to make her call off the D. However, by living here, things are so gloomy all the time that I become obsessed with everything that is said and done on either end. I start analyzing and most of the time I can build up things that probably weren't that big to begin with.
This morning she left to go do some errands. I started cleaning up the house. The kids came home and my mom brought her birthday present with her (she hasn't seen her since her birthday on the 2nd). I gave my wife the present when she came home. I told her that my mom brought it not realizing she wasn't home. It's still sitting wrapped on the counter as we speak. She sat down and started watching television and eating her lunch. The kids were all over her. She eventually flipped out and said she doesn't know why she even tries to relax. She started cleaning the rest of the house. Other than "Do you know where the paper towels are?" I haven't spoken to her about anything.
So I finished cleaning up the house and she's upstairs doing something. I know that she's going to say that I was just cleaning because of Thursday. But I can't not do it because that would confirm her. I really do want to change permanently. I don't want to be so distant. I want to be more involved in the day to day. However, it seems impossible to do in this environment. If I could just reach the point of getting her to back off of the divorce and agree to separate, I could refocus and work on my goals. But right now I'm so skittish and gunshy that I have hard time concentrating on anything else.
OK, now breathe in and out. So much to respond to but will keep it brief because you are on overload. I hear a pattern in your R. She wants you to do more and when she threatens is how she gets it. But what does she get? You on overload and crash/burn. Back to ground zero. What could you change in this pattern? What would you tell your best friend to do differently? Obviously, you both have to come to some agreement on what changes would make a difference. She can't expect all and you can't do it all.
Secondly, don't worry about her stuff - I know it affects you but that is what it means to be two separate individuals, joining in M is about - the two become one - a team effort in running the show- not one or the other. If you want to work on the M then do so regardless of the eventual outcome - not knowing and trying to adjust everyday doesn't work.
Third point, if you are distant? Why? Does she not want you? Or do you not want her? Are there ways to warm things up? You won her heart in the first place and kept her around this long? You must know she likes. You also have to be prepared to be ok if she is gunshy too. Life has no promises - live what you can today.
She is extremely cold and aloof most of the time. I can only assume that this is her defense mechanism. She was never this way in the past. She was always an extremely generous and caring person. No she's just angry and bitter most of the time. I think that she is suffering from depression, but if anyone recommends that she see someone she just states that she is miserable because of our failure of a marriage.
I'm confused by what you mean when you say "You also have to be prepared to be ok if she is gunshy too." I assume you mean that I need to be ready that she may insist on the divorce. I'm thinking that she does not want to consider my proposal. She received some money as a gift today and gave me half. I know it sounds trivial, but normally that money would just go into the bank account. It was like here's my half and here's yours. I dunno. Again, I panic and overthink things.
So far, nothing has been said about my proposal at all. I'm thinking that tomorrow I will leave the for her in the morning and then go to church.
I meant that she is probably just as unsure of you as you are of her. If there has been a pattern, where you each have set responses and nothing changes in the long run - then the "dance" has to change, different responses will result in different outcomes. The problem comes up for many is that we don't trust the changes, we don't understand that change takes time and slip ups occur. If you don't understand what is involved in change then the same responses go into play with the same outcome. DB suggests changes, helps you to understand the nature of change and time and slip ups, but mostly to be patient with change. The suggestion to do 180's is just to get their attention, if you don't back it up over time - things go back to the same. Back to your sitch, change your response to one thing -not everything but be consistent. Too many changes at once can't be maintained.
I read a few things you stated that lead me to believe she is wavering, having a hard time with the sitch, and that could translate into the separation vs D. It was good to bring it up. She didn't give you a flat NO, she is thinking about what changes and what doesn't change. Don't push it. You can ask if she is still thinking about it - again reminding her that there is no pressure to decide now. Let her think. You think about what is realistic for you.
If she is emotionally, physically distant, try talking nicely, superficially, etc. polite conversation to break the ice.
Well this morning was ugly. She woke me up and told me that she sent the lawyer an email concerning the legal separation to make sure it worked the way I said it did. She said that it wasn't that she didn't believe me, but that I wasn't a lawyer. I told her I understood. But being disoriented from being woken up, the next part was bad...
She said that she wanted to know what I thought of the terms she had told me. I told her that I thought splitting he debt down the middle and yet I still had to pay for my car on my own was ridiculous. Her car is paid off so she has no bills. I would think that the car should be considered part of the debt.
She went nuts telling me that wasn't going to happen.
Last night she told me that she had a lot of work to do for her class and asked that if I could take the kids. I told her that I could. This morning I was getting ready to go and she was all mad because my daughter wanted to go to my mothers house instead of her parents house. Apparently her parents had something for them and she had told them that the kids would be by today. In the meantime I had told the kids that we could do some project they've been asking to do over at my parents house. So when I came downstairs my wife says to me "Nice one on telling them they could do that project over at your parents house so they wouldn't want to go to my parents house." I was like "What are you talking about? I had no idea they were supposed to go to your parents' house." She got all worked up and said "I think I'm on to your game." I told her that I didn't have any game. She told me that she was leaving to pick some things up and left. So I took the kids over to my parents for a bit and then dropped them by her parents. When I got back home my wife seemed fine as if nothing happened. I have no idea what to make of any of it. It was way out of left field. I was only doing what she asked me to do so that she could complete her stuff. I had no way of knowing what plans she makes in meantime if she doesn't tell me.
I'm just letting it go for now. I guess the one positive is she is at least considering the separation. However, this whole thinking that I would use the kids for leverage thing is out of line and unwarranted. There is nothing in out past that would lead her to believe that I would do that. In fact, I have done everything in my power to keep them free of this. While I personally believe that D is bad for kids, I do not even use that in my logic with her.
I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bizzaroworld line.
Sounds like you did wake up in bizzaroworld. What a terrible way to wake up. Unfortunately, happens when sharing the same household, but it gets better (in a goog way).
Also sounds like she is considering the separation and that has to do with some of the changes, like coming up with the separation and not responding in old ways.
It is important to let a lot of things go right now - you are in this place because of R differences which will not go away without help and time. The first goal has to be to get to the place where you can both work on the M. You do your part now and when she is ready to join you then you work out the other stuff.
I think her other comments show her insecurities at the moment - after all aren't you feeling a bit overwhelmed emotionally now? So is she. Be prepared for her to use the car in a deal for the separation.
Mostly I want to encourage you to keep DBing in your responses to her. It is working. Did you do anything about contacting MC or IC? I have been new to this myself, spend the last six weeks setting some limits and changing responses. H is seeking help for his problem. I got the encouragement from others here and reading. We are a long way from reuniting, it will take time to heal for both of us, but it has started. The first step in a long journey. Passing it on.
Remember, you are doing fine, and it is working. Keep it up.
Ask questions about specific sitch's others will help too.
Well we actually ate dinner together. It wasn't anything much, but we sat at the same table and talked. To be honest, I'm not worried that much about the car. I probably wouldn't have even brought it up if I was entirely awake. I also think you are right about the insecurities and I think the whole weird bit later was the first argument trickling into those insecurities.
I'm starting to pick up on things now that suggest that she may be wavering on her decision. One things that I left out was she said that the lawyer was going to send me a packet with the terms of the divorce. She went on to say that nothing was signed yet or anything, but it was just so that I had the information.
I'm gad to see that things are starting to look up on your end. We spend so much time talking about my sitch that you never get a chance to update on yours.
IC is Individual counseling- some people do that before MC, or during MC. Part of DB is working on yourself if your partner isn't ready to work on the M.
I'm getting support from others - I just wanted you know that you are not going through this alone. Their are many others here at different points in the process, all asking for and giving support.
Sounds like a step to have dinner together and talking. It may not seem like much but is a start or sign of what works.
No, I haven't given her the letter yet. See, with our situation, as Kassie pointed out, there is a definite pattern. I change wait for her to notice get tired revert back to old ways she threatens divorce...repeat. We used to be extremely close but have grown very distant in the last three years. So we do not have very good communication at all. If I am doing something that she likes or does not like, she doesn't tell me. So when I make a positive change it becomes very hard for me to tell. When I do something that she doesn't like (or not do enough of what she does) I find out when she threatens divorce. At that time, I go nuts trying to make her happy and usually plead with her to reconsider. This time I am not pleading, but trying to work on the things that I need to work on to be a better person all around and not the things that I think she would want me to be doing. I think a lot of these coincide, but believe me, it is very difficult for me to not "push the envelope" and start expecting answers right away. She has gone farther than she has in the past, actually consulting a lawyer, but so far I have not been served. So I am doing everything in my power to keep it together and work on the things that I can, without pressuring her because if I pressure her I may very well pressure her out the door. I want the letter to come across as something that explains my thoughts and not something I wrote in a panic because she's talking to a lawyer about the big D. It's a fine line I'm walking too. Because if I sit steady too long I might get blindsided. But tension flairs up just enough to make the letter appear to be in response to that tension.
I don't know your situation, stillloveshim, but I can see that there was an EA involved. Will he go to a marriage councilor or coach? Be careful there too. If he wants to go then great. If he doesn't, don't pressure him too hard. I pressured my wife really hard to go to a marriage councilor and it ended up being a waste of time and money because she just sat there for an obligatory hour and we came home to business as usual. While you might be able to make him go, you can't make him participate. A coach, or the DB techniques, are brilliant because they are designed to help one person make changes that can create changes in the other.
Again, I don't know your situation, but if you're fighting that can actually be a good sign because there is still some form (granted it may be hurtful or negative) of communication. When my wife and I used to fight we actually had a better marriage. It wasn't until everything just shut down that things got horrible. We've sort of coexisted in this weird sterile but stagnant world for the past couple of years. That's hard on everybody.
As far as a note goes, it really depends on the note and the reader of the note. I went out of my way to write my note as dry and straightforward as possible. I didn't fill it with "I still you" and "you complete me" stuff. Personally I think that, as hard as it may be to understand, if you give that note to someone who is wavering on their feelings towards you, it could seem like a form of pressuring.
For instance, in my note, I pointed out solid and tangible reasons why I think that our marriage can and should be saved. However, I first acknowledged her pain and made it point to show her that those feelings are important and not to be taken lightly. I approached her with an alternative to the divorce and pointed out reasons why this alternative would work in addressing BOTH of our feelings. I also pointed out that the alternative could eventually be turned to a divorce if she still felt the same afterward, but it could only strengthen the relationship that we would need to maintain for the rest of our lives due to the children. I was careful not to use the children to martyr my point or invalidate her feelings or decisions. I simply laid out a plan that I thought would be best for us and our children. Now in reality, I wanted to write that I still loved her very deeply and that I couldn't understand how she could do this. But she already knows all of that and to have there in writing would only badger the point.
