LoveNoMatterWhat's New Thread

[lodo]

Great post, 25mlc. We don't part ways at all - you just better worded what I was trying to say. LMNW, I personally think the bottom line is - learn how to extricate yourself from these kinds of conversations if it isn't productive. If it's starting to go sour, change the subject.

I've also been thinking about your sitch and the feelings she must have from you instigating D. My XW instigated the D and now she's trying to be friends. She actually just wants my friendship without doing anything to earn it, i.e. I should just be there for her, so it isn't a fair comparison. But I was wondering how I would feel if she tried harder. And I can honestly tell you that I could imagine being friends, perhaps, but I've completely closed the door on being in a relationship with her because of the way she acted pre-D. So it would take a LOT of low-level, consistent, pleasant interaction to get past that. At least for me. But it sounds like you guys already have a pretty good relationship, so that's a great start.

lodo

[FaithfulH]

Lodo,

LNMW didn't instigate the D....his W did. Might give you a different perspective on his (and her) feelings about reconciling....

Thanks for sharing with him....

[lodo]

oh, i thought he left her when she wanted to make it work. My bad, ignore that last bit.

[lovenomatterwhat]

okay, so here is an update about yesterday.

After work I picked up my daughter and went home. When I opened the door, I was totally surprised. There were balloons everywhere and on my kitchen table there was a cake that said "thank you for all you do for me". That was completely unexpected. My ex has a key to my place and had gone during her lunch hour to decorate my place. That evening we all got dressed up and went to some fancy restaurant up in Boston. It was such a wonderful night and my ex (won't use the word wife so that new folks don't get confused) looked just beautiful. We had great conversation and I so much want to hold her and tell her how much I love her (of course, I held back).

Regarding a couple of days ago, I was simply frustrated and had to let out some stream. There is absolutely no way I am giving up - although I sure feel like it some times. It seems like the more progress you make, the harder it gets. But this is where the rubber meets the road. I have to stick with this no matter how I feel and demonstrate to my ex that I am serious about being by her side. Like my buddy FaithfulH says, I must love her the way she wants to be loved with no strings attached.

25yearsmlc,
Thank you so much for your feedback. There was no affair. You can read my story here:

Part I of My Situation

In short, I got married, we were really happy the first three years and then when we had our daughter, I walked out on the family. Lodo, both you and FaithfulH are right. In the beginning I wanted to get a divorce and she wanted to make it work out. Later, I "woke up" and she made up her mind that I was never going to change and decided to divorce me. I did all I could to try to stop it from happening, but my realization came too late.

When I said it was better to be happy than to be right, I think there is a line between having an opinion and trying to prove everyone wrong. For the most part, I am not really a pushover and try to maintain and express my views/ideas/opinions. I don't think our little altercation had anything to do with our opinions though as it did with her perception. Towards the end of our marriage, I was very bitter (this was b/f my awakening)and basically began to put her family and friends down. I was so unhappy with life and myself that I guess it was easier to try to make everyone else share my misery. She definitely sees the changes in my attitude and the way I interact with her family/friends, but anything that suggests that I am trying to put them in a negative light (regardless of if I am keeping the discussion cognitive vs affective), tends to bring up bad memories and I think that is what happened here. She is still learning to trust me and I am still having to earn that trust. I did a lot of damage and those memories are just not easily erased. I liked the suggestions about trying to shed the debate in a more positive light.

For the most part, I think I am pretty upbeat and try to be the optimist, at least when I am around my ex or friends. Lodo, thank you for your comments. You are so correct about women being attractive to confidence. And thank you about reminding me about not losing myself.

I mean, are you getting defensive b/c you feel so guilty and ashamed that in order to level the playing field with others, so you won't keep feeling 'beneath', then you put others down?

No, I don't think that is what's happening. A lot of my friends and I are use to sitting down for lunch and simply having what we call "D&D" - discussion and debate, where we share our views on things and if we disagree, we try to present good arguments to make our case. It is always friendly and we never think much about it afterwards. For the most part, my ex is that same way too. I think I touched a sensitive subject that brought out bad memories of how I use to be.

But it sounds like you guys already have a pretty good relationship, so that's a great start.

Yes, we have made a lot of progress since last summer. There is still a lot of work to be done though.

This is likely to be a test and part of it is testing your ability to show that over time, you'll still stick around. If not, she wants to know now.

This whole process is a test, but one I am determine to past. I am discovering more each day how much I love my wife and daughter. It is definitely not easy, as I am constantly having to suppress my feelings and do what is necessary to demonstrate my love and change of character. I keep reminding myself that everything I do much be an expression of love and not an expression of need. I so much want to tell her how much I love her, to be selfish and make this about fulfilling my emotional needs. But truth be told only God can fill that void. So everything I do towards them must be motivated to providing greater happiness, greater joy and greater love in their life, regardless of how that might make me feel at the moment.

LMNW, Actions, not words.

Breton39, what can I say. Thank you for always being here.

Well, please continue posting and I will do the same. Off to bed.

[FaithfulH]

After work I picked up my daughter and went home. When I opened the door, I was totally surprised. There were balloons everywhere and on my kitchen table there was a cake that said "thank you for all you do for me". That was completely unexpected.

LNMW,

Well....not TOTALLY unexpected! I (and I bet you) expected God was still at work in your sitch....even when YOU momementarily lost hope and faith.

I am so happy for you and your family! As we have discussed, this is a long road back.....enjoy the journey! Everybody is healing....maybe even your extended circle of friends and inlaws. This event is one of many that will confirm in EVERYBODY'S hearts why your family should be (will be) back together under one roof. Heck....you're together now....just not living in the same place.

It was such a wonderful night and my ex (won't use the word wife so that new folks don't get confused) looked just beautiful.

I'm glad you used "wife" later in your post. This thread is yours...not ours. Sometimes we may forget a critical part of your sitch....which is why you have to rely on God more than us to direct your path. You never know what bit of our own garbage or past we are bringing into our "advice"....so, never forget to check anything you hear here with the "big man upstairs" (obviously, my advice included) before you act. I hope you don't resort to calling your W your ex...newbies and even some of us old timers be darned! Frankly, this bit of advice has more to do with helping you maintain an attitude of "your marriage IS ALREADY restored in God's eyes....it's just the earthly evidence hasn't quite caught up with that reality".

As I head back to bed for a few hours rest, I am at peace over God's hand in all of our lives....and yours in particular.

In a brief hijack, I will close with one bit of praise in my own life.....I was told by the lead company in my job search that I will be receiving an offer on Monday evening to move to Dallas to join their Headquarter's team...praise GOD! I think I'll go dust off my old thread to share with old friends on the MLC board...

Good night, LNMW...and friends!

[forward]

Wow. Now don't tell me that isn't progress. Wow is all I can say.

It might get better and then worse as you have to sort out past feelings, but I think you're on the right course. Keep doing whta you are doing.

LMNW, I wish my H would have an awakening like yours. There was no affair in your sitch; in mine there is, but at least H is paying more attention to D.

[lodo]

hey,

I'd have to say that from what you write here, you show about as much consistence as most people can muster. She obviously responds to you.

So maybe you can trust a little bit more in the things that initially attracted her to you. You know, flirt a little bit. Do you already? Even if she accuses you of trying to win her back you can blow her off like that isn't what you're doing. Yes, it's a game, but ... You know, not the polite, pandering kind of flirting, but the confident "I enjoy life" kind of flirting.

Just be consistent. lodo

[25yearsmlc]

LNMW,

Glad you didn't have an affair...and I don't want to moan about the unchangeable past so don't get this the wrong way, please. But if I read your history right, you LEFT your wife and daughter after the baby was born??

Well, pardon me and I'll only say it once but #$%^&U*I!!!!!! . Um, yeah, I think that says it all. So um, YEAH she'll need some time like A LOT of time to trust you again. That is a crushing thing b/c it means that when it comes to the tough life times, like "hey, having a baby around does cramp your style and interferes with the "fun times" means you might not have the "testes" to make it in life. Life will throw some curve balls and in most people's worlds, a BABY IS A GOOD THING....so what if something really tough happens? What if your wife gets really sick, or someone loses a job? Are you gonna miss the good old single times again and check out?

I say this b/c in some ways, it just scares the hell out of women more than anything. We really want security from a man, to know that when he "leaves the cave for food, he'll come back with some meat..." but instead, you left the cave cuz you felt confined, etc. For some women, that is more frightening than OWs are. I say all this to reassure you and warn you. I want to reassure you that your w's actions are SO encouraging...she seems to believe your changes are real...and I'm warning you b/c I don't know if I'm hearing it. Do you recognize that deserting your family (again, I'm using your words in the last post as my guide) is TERRIFYING TO a woman with a small child? It could affect whether she's willing to have ANY more children with you b/c maybe it'll trigger another freak out from you.

Do you think it will? Gosh, I'd be so worried about that if I were pregnant, and that stinks b/c pregnancy should be a wonderful miraculous event but if it's stained by someone's past actions...and you have the hormones that happen naturally and make a woman want to NEST...but she's married to someone who LEFT the nest instead of protecting and providing....well, I don't want to hammer you.. 'but that's a "gaslight" sitch if you know what I mean (where the h tries to make the w think she's crazy...but she isn't)...

I want to help you see that what you did was a long term thing even if it only lasted a day or a week. I'm not clear on how long it was before you woke up. But if it was more than a week, I'd be so terrified of risking my heart and the heart of my child again AND very hesitant to have another child with you AND THAT might be something I resent a lot later on. IOW, if your w wanted to have a few kids and now b/c of your reaction, only has the one, it could really hurt your R later on as she decides you "robbed" her of more kids. Does this make sense?

I'm so glad you woke up. Just give her A LOT more time than you originally thought. (and more than I thought). Because after reflecting, I honestly believe I'd need maybe MORE healing time with something like a departure from the home after giving birth, than a brief fling. It would feel more like you rejected fatherhood and co-parenting. But she's wanting to believe in you, thank GOD. And she sees how you are with d and THAT has to be the most important thing for you to do. To compensate and reassure her that her biggest fear; being deserted in a time of need, is NOW unfounded... you can do that.

Maybe the 'cold feet about being a dad' argument will work for you, with time. But probably more time, okay? I guess I feel like that makes sense. How is that sounding to you? You know, lots and lots and LOTS of patience with her. THEY are worth it and you know it. Thank GOD.
( j )

[FaithfulH]

LNMW,

Knock knock....anybody home?

How you doin'?

[25yearsmlc]

maybe I scared him off too much? Come back LNMW, seriously. Just letting you know how scary it is for a woman to have a baby, and not have the guy come back to the cave with meat...does that analogy make sense to the alpha males out there? Hm, faithfulH, does it resonate with you?

The feminist in me hates it, but the regular woman in me admits it. We want to feel safe and protected and its never more important than when we have a young one at home.

Hope you are well FH, and you too LNMW,

(( j ))