I've been praying for you the last couple of nights. But like my sitch, I have moved more toward praying for me, and my desire for love and happiness, and less for the "success" of my M.
You are such a wise women and your sitch is so complex that I'm always reluctant to offer any advice to you. I feel like you are more the teacher and many of us are the students. Anyway, I never noticed your signature quote (taking care of me...), but that subject is hitting home with me these days. I posted it recently is a couple of places, but wanted to share it with you.
All of our sitches SUCK. Especially for the kids, but I think I've finally realized, for my benefit (and the kids' too), I will be better off w/o longing for love and forgiveness from someone who's not likely to give it to me. I think a sitch like this beats us down even more.
I know it's not simple for you to move on, but I pray that you're happy, one day soon, wherever you land.
NM
Originally Posted By: NewMe
I was reading a parenting book (scream-free parenting) when the author gave his interpretation of St. Bernard of Clairvaux's four degrees of love, which centered around balancing love of self and love of god, but applied it to the parental, or any (spousal) relationship. Disclaimer - I am not a theologian and am paraphrasing the author's interpretation.
The Four Degrees of Love 1) I love ME for MY benefit - selfish and infantile. Serving only and considering only oneself. Like children act when they are young.
2) I love YOU for MY benefit - loving you so I can get validation, a good sense from being needed - like Cheap Trick sang "I need you to need me".
3) I love YOU for YOUR benefit - sounds selfless, but also too serving. Doing all for another, with no benefit to self, can expose hidden self interests and create martyrdom.
4) I love ME for YOUR benefit - the highest form of love. Taking care of yourself, making yourself whole and making yourself happy - so no one else has to. When you complete yourself first, only then, can you truly give without expectations or needing care.
I read about GALing here, knew I needed to take care of myself and then might be able to bust my D. The topic also came up in MC and IC, as the W was exhausted from giving and being needed. When I read this piece the other night it really (finally) hit home.
Not sure if this missing piece can save this M - there's too many wounds at present. I do know, it will help me continue on to be the best person I can be and to allow me to truly give love to my kids and my mate(one day). NM
Hope you are feeling better today Cookie, and that doc helped you gain some clarity.
I think Gucci's advise about just stopping "trying" is very sound.
Regarding IC for your H, be careful about confusing the result you want to see with the means to achieve it. If one result you want, for example, is for H to be more emotionally connected to you, the kids and himself, you think (perhaps correctly) that IC for him would be the way to get there. That might be one route or it might not. There could be other ways to get there too. Or he could go every week and still get nothing from it. Look at what these guys said:
Originally Posted By: confusedinpa
To be frank, my wife had been trying to get me to understand/recognize that there was a problem for years (according to her 8 of the 9.5 years we've been married).
I spent a year going to counseling every week wondering why I was there.
I didn't understand until Jan 9th this year when my wife told me she filed for divorce.
Originally Posted By: Virtually_Handsome
As long as he thinks it's all you, I don't think it makes a hill of beans of difference if he sees an IC of not. He's just going to hear what he wants to hear, anyway.
I am wondering if the changes you saw in him were due to the IC or to the crisis mode he was in at the time to win you back. It may be both.
I get the sense that your H really doesn't have a clue why you want him to go to IC or what it is you want from him in terms of emotional connection. He seems to equate the absence of mental pathology with emotional health. I am reading "How can I get through to you?" by Terrence Real about the gap in intimacy skills between men and women. He mentions a cartoon where the couple is at a marriage counselor and the wife says to the husband "Of course you don't know why we're here. That's why we're here!"
As far as living arrangements if you separate, I understand and agree with Gucci's thinking as between you and H, but IMO, what is best for the kids should be the #1 consideration. Their lives will have the least disruption if they stay in their home with the person who has taken care of the home, and the vast majority of their (non-monetary) physical and emotional needs for the entire lives.
I know you'll be okay whatever you choose, and I support you either way. You deserve a great relationship and I am confident you will have that, if not with H, then someone else in the future should you choose to leave.
I read what everybody said, I have chuckled & have a big smile on my face. Thank you all so much for your care, concern, & help.
I'm in a very good place right now mentally. I'm headed to a meeting, then will be back later to check up on you all & offer support back.
Hugs to all who like them.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
T, no powder kegs. I'm in a good place. I'm in control of me now. I'm not being reactive. I'm being proactive.
He went to IC today. I never voiced any preference on whether he found a new C, or went to our old C.... all of that was his choice.
My comment was that what if he finds a C that says he is healthy, yet he is still being emotionally or verbally abusive to me, then where do we go from there ?
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
<<He could control the old, weak, crumbly cookie, and he got used to it. The new cookie threatens him, I think.
Ya think ?? The new cookie feels rather bulletproof.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
<<then take him up on his offer. If he doesn't, then it still shows that you have grown and will tackle this on your own and find a way. This way he will have a harder time getting his way and trying to turn this into your fault.
After talking with Doc yesterday, I decided to call H & offer a proposal.
I told H that I was prepared to move out, but since neither of us have a paycheck at the moment, that wasn't very smart. If I moved out, it would just deplete our savings faster. I said I did not want to share a bed right now, & if he would agree to sleep anywhere but our bed, I would stay in the home. He agreed.
I also told him that I needed time & space, & did not want to discuss the R at all.
He e-mailed me today, & told me that he had IC today at 5 pm.
<<You need to be the rock for them and show leadership.
You're right. Keep talking. I'm listening.
<<Can I really make it on my own?
I'm not afraid of this. I moved out at 16, & lived alone til 25. I also got an e-mail from the police dept. After reviewing my application, they've invited me to the next step towards employment.
<< I know I come across to people that don't like my way of posting as insensitive. That is far from fact.
Really ?? I never noticed. lol
<<"Who Moved My Cheese" is a good book that talks about overcoming fear and how it can lead to things you never dreamed of.
Yep. I have the book, read it years ago. Need to read it again apparently.
Doc says any change can be viewed as a threat or an opportunity. I see opportunity.
<<I get it. Nothing to be embarrased about things with the old Gooch. You are well loved on this site.
ya big softie ! I never knew you were a toasted marshmallow.... crusty on the outside, gooey on the inside.
<<Far different than feelings many have for me huh?
You are growing on me all the sudden.
<<Don't underestimate how strong you are.
I feel amazingly good & strong.
<<BINGO.... I wanted to advise that to you earlier,but thought it may be too much too soon. SEE?
You were right. I wouldn't have been ready before the motel experience. Ready had been telling me for a while. I just wasn't ready to hear it.
<< Your instincts are good. Use them.
ty
<<Excellent. You could get into the decorating your way and furnishing and all the things you women love to do when getting your nest ready.
You know what's ironic. This home is gorgeous. I decorated it the way I want. But, it doesn't feel emotionally safe anymore. Bridge is right, a house is just a house with stuff in it.
<< I think most of us understand that he isn't all bad and it wasn't all bad.
I think in my very first post I talked about his good qualities. His strengths. He's always been a very good provider, a very hard worker. We have a beautiful home, & I drive a gorgeous car. He's not out whoring around, or staying in bars all night. He doesn't gamble his paycheck away. He's never laid a finger on me in anger.
<<I must tell you that if you follow through on the separation, that you need to be prepared if he panics and makes some more promises. It would not surprise me if he does. It is time for HIM to get healthy in the ways he isn't. Just because someone has a broken foot doesn't mean that his hand is broken. The foot needs to be healed.
like him going to IC today ?
<<Be wise.
I believe I am. Thank you.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
