Counseling or Divorce

[Bridgestone]

OK.. then it will be advice first & support &understanding as you progress, for whatever decision you make.

My advice would be as your Doc said.. get your financials set first. One can not be separated without providing for oneself and partially for your kids. Get a GOOD handle on a realistic picture of what it costs to be on your own... car payments, insurance, title, clothing, haircuts, food, cable, internet, cell phones, kids lunches, spending $, dog food & vet bills, etc etc.

I have provided a list, and I believe you have access to it in other places, of various ways to manage $$ over time in order to provide a cushion if you choose to walk .

All this will take time... you will need lots of patience & some blackberry merlot.

He is not physically abusing you.. I will agree the circles of chasing by diverting, defending, stonewalling, etc are verbally abusive... but one can avoid that for months, we've both been there, done that.

It won't be a cake walk to put up with things that way, but you are a strong person & there is an end point. Either he get into counseling to move towards a more healthy R. or YOU are moving towards a place where you are able to separate. That is the boundary I heard you put into place, correct?

If he gets verbally abusive, just go for a drive, lock yourself in the bathroom, text a friend & have them call you, etc. You can remove yourself from the situation. You can ignore him.. he's like a big bully on the playground.. what advice would you give your kids for how to handle something like that?

There's a start for my advice & support.
You can do this... whatever you decide 'this' is.

hugs
Bridge

[Tomato]

one Q I have for you though. and I hope this doesn't set you off like a powder keg.

I believe that I read that your H said that he would be willing to make a minimal trial run kinda thing at doing IC. He mentioned that he would want to return to a C that he had been to before.

What is so wrong with this offer from him? I guess I sense that his offer is perhaps being made for the wrong reasons (just to appease you by "punching the clock" at a C's place ..so to speak).

But some S's never make an offer of any kind to go to IC. So, IMO, just because he seems to have the wrong mindset about this matter does not in fact mean that no good might come from it.

When I mentioned in my last post that I felt I could easily be your H's "understudy", this is one of the items that caused me to feel that way. Cuz I viewed IC the same way as your H does. Since I did not see a definitive need for IC for myself I went initially at my darlings insistence. And just as your H has suggested, I figured that the C would make a good impartial judgement as to whether I needed to be in their office on a regular basis.


T

[Virtually_Handsome]

(((((((cookie)))))))

Whatever you do, don't waffle! You can change your mind in time, if it comes to that, but indecisiveness will drive you crazy!

I think you have grown. You have come a long way towards overcoming your "issues". I think he is threatened by that. He could control the old, weak, crumbly cookie, and he got used to it. The new cookie threatens him, I think.

[DownNotOut...yet]

Well, once we are both single, we could never date each other. You are way too smart for me.

When dying of heat & thirst...sometimes a drop of water (or 5 minutes) is enough to keep us hanging around to see if there's more ?? :-)

Ain't that just the way! They give us just enough to keep us hopeful, hangin' round like dogs under the table.

[gucci loafer]

You're right, I normally feel that he takes a competitive approach to our conversations. I feel like I'm talking with the devil's advocate on most things.

Yes. I suspect that is the case. That is the reason I recommend that you say that you are moving out. If you say you want him to move out he more than likely would try to challenge that and take his normal competitive approach. He may play the devil's advocate on that too if you say that you are leaving. If he does, (and says, no he will leave) then take him up on his offer. If he doesn't, then it still shows that you have grown and will tackle this on your own and find a way. This way he will have a harder time getting his way and trying to turn this into your fault.

I AM that serious. I am GLAD to go. I just don't want to rip the kids up & away from their friends, & their environment.

Understandable. You are a "smart cookie". Find a way that works.
I bet you underestimate what the kids have secretly observed with how he has spoken to you over the years. They may just surprise you. You need to be the rock for them and show leadership. You are no doubt stronger than I think you have realized yet. If you have boys, they are subconsciously learning that this is how men treat women. Girls could be damaged by thinking that they should take men talking like this to them. They may even say to themselves "I would never let a man talk to me that way." Don't fool yourself. They HAVE been observing this too.

I dont know........[censored] [censored] [censored]...... I suppose because it's gone on for soooooooooooo long.

I'm sorry for your pain. I do understand completely. The fear of what you are going to do since you have been a SAHM for so long. The Kids? Where will I live? Can I really make it on my own? I know I come across to people that don't like my way of posting as insensitive. That is far from fact. You will do what you have to do. You will find a way. You will go through a wide range of emotions. Fear can paralyze people. "Who Moved My Cheese" is a good book that talks about overcoming fear and how it can lead to things you never dreamed of.

Now I'm crying because I hear that you get it. I'm also embarrased because this is not me. This is not who I was. I was better than this when I met him. I was stronger than this.

I get it. Nothing to be embarrased about things with the old Gooch. You are well loved on this site. Far different than feelings many have for me huh?

Don't underestimate how strong you are. Strength isn't measured in how you feel, but in how you respond and act when you are in the valley and don't know where it leads you.

Yes, that makes sense. It felt that way to me too. Then I thought I should just leave him with everything for a month or so & let him see how easy it is being a SAHM with 4 kids.

BINGO.... I wanted to advise that to you earlier,but thought it may be too much too soon. SEE? That wasn't hard was it? You have a good head on your shoulders. I see it with your replies to others day after day. NOW is the time to use that gift you have as a gift to yourself. Your instincts are good. Use them.

I visualize my own place. I feel calm & safe. I wish I could move into the motel I spent 2 days at. It was great, too small for 4 kids though.

Excellent. You could get into the decorating your way and furnishing and all the things you women love to do when getting your nest ready. It will make you feel good. Weigh your options and use your good instincts. Think what you would tell others on here to do. How many times have I seen you be commended for your advice. Many. That feedback should tell you that you will be just fine.

For so many years, I thought he was the "healthy" one. I had him on a pedastal. I thought he knew what was best for the kids & me. I thought I was messed up from my childhood, & I looked to him for the answers. I trusted him to keep me safe, & protect me & love me.

He may be healthy in some ways. I think most of us understand that he isn't all bad and it wasn't all bad.
It isn't over yet.
I must tell you that if you follow through on the separation, that you need to be prepared if he panics and makes some more promises. It would not surprise me if he does. It is time for HIM to get healthy in the ways he isn't. Just because someone has a broken foot doesn't mean that his hand is broken. The foot needs to be healed.

Be wise.

[Purple]

I believe that I read that your H said that he would be willing to make a minimal trial run kinda thing at doing IC. He mentioned that he would want to return to a C that he had been to before.

Is this right Cook?

[fb2]

((SC)), Not to negate your feelings, but there's probably some validity in your H's perceptions of you and his own self-image just as there is in yours. And just like you must not be negated so must he not be negated in order for love to bloom. An unhealthy pattern has developed and it looks to me that both of you have a big part in it. Dare I say abuse is flying in both directions. So you are BOTH not emotionally healthy and assertive enough as a result. H's responses are coming from fear - fight or flight - he's hurting as a result of your emotional state but does not know how to respond assertively. I could be wrong, but he does not seem like a BAD guy to me or you would have left a long time ago.

I'm not sure IC for H would necessarily help. I'll try to tell you why. He'll tell the IC all his feelings and frustrations with you. The IC will mostly validate him. And what does this do for the R? It will most likely make matters worse. Its bad enough you have Doc doing this for you. I think the only way C of any kind (IC or MC) can work is if you BOTH go with at least the attitude: I HAVE ISSUES; I WAN'T TO CHANGE. MY H HAS ISSUES; I WANT TO LEARN TO COPE AND HELP HIM COPE. I WANT TO BE MORE LOVING TO MY SPOUSE. I DON'T WANT TO HURT OR BE HURT. PLEASE HELP ME. If you don't have at least this its a big waste of money.

I think some kind of spiritual direction for both of you may help a lot more to bring peace to you and then to your family. I've seen for myself that the psychology approach is like Newtonian Mechanics vs. the Theory of Relativity. Try to explore this route with that keen mind of yours. If I'm not making sense I'm sure FG will.

[MrBond]

Hah well you should've had the contract notarized then sued him for breach of contract! : )

Hang in there. I think your husband is just suffering from Homo Maleness Stubbornous Egotripium. My W suffers from the female version.

Maybe you do need the physical time apart from each other to learn to respect each other. Get him some time to think about things.

[Kalni]

Got your message through my yahoo notifications. Unfortunately I cant get back to you through fb when at work, they've figured that out, LOL.
Feelings are mutual. My news are posted I am ok.

For what is worth, I tend to agree with everything gucci says (maybe cause I love gucci handbags -not the men's loafers though )
Love
K


You are welcome here anytime.

[gucci loafer]

Hey maybe I should change my name to Gucci Handbags...

or maybe Gucci_Gucci_Goo