new to db'ing, my first post ...

[sandi2]

Hi, I'm glad that you were open to what I told you. Unfortunately, I have seen this too many times in couples. I will never understand what attracts some females to the "bad boy" character b/c to me it is very unappealing, but that is a difference in people's taste. I do want to encourage you about something that I feel is very important and I hope you will listen carefully. I know when a heart is breaking it is hard to hear, but so far you have done a great job, so I hope you will hear this also. I tried to teach my son to understand women's needs and to be a "nice guy". So, when he was old enough to date he quickly became discouraged b/c it seemed like all the girls he cared about would end up breaking his heart and turning to the bad boys. He told me that it was clear to him that the worse you treated women, the better they liked it. I was concerned about him b/c he had a big heart and I know I'm his mother, but he is a good person and I hated to see him change his natural character/personality just to try to get a particular girl. I encouraged him to hold out b/c I believed that there was a girl for him that would truly appreciate his wonderful good nature. Well, that girl came along! She is the sweetest DIL that I could ever hope to have. She has told me many times how much she appreciates how I raised him b/c he is so good to her and their children. He is a good man, not b/c I taught him to be, necessarily, but b/c he was born with that nature. So, what I am telling you is NOT to change just to try to "get the girl" b/c whether it is your wife or another woman later down the road, there is somebody that will appreciate you for the man you already are and you won't have to break you back trying to become somebody you aren't.

I am not saying this is true in every case b/c I don't have the degrees of a piece of paper to say that it is, but I can say that I have witnessed these cases of the woman wanting the bad boys when she was either spoiled by her parents (or whoever raised her). And, by spoiled, I don't mean with money, but I mean that they gave into her and let her have her way if she threw enough angry fits until they grew weary and would relent. So, in other words, they were too good to her and she did not respect them b/c they gave into her wishes when they knew it was not what she should do/have. Therefore, when the "bad boy" comes along and pays no attention to her and treats her like she is something for him to wipe his feet on......she respects him b/c he is the first person that has ever told her she could not have what she wanted........mainly him. So, naturally, she wants him and more of his treatment.

It all sounds so crazy, doesn't it? But that is my reason for saying some of the things I did in my last post.

She just has to "wiggle" it as you say and I'm there but if the opposite is done and I'm the one initiating it and she's not exactly feeling it or wanting to, she holds out.

This is just my opinion but I see this as "power control". She calls the shots as to when to have sex. If the two of you have sex when YOU want it, then that means she is submitting to you and giving up her power (in her mind). She feels in control of the relationship and it makes her feel "powerful" to know that it takes little effort on her behalf to work you like a puppet. It feeds her ego. But it is not in a good way. You are a young, normal man who is separated from his wife, and of course you are sexually needy. She also realizes that and I am quite sure saves that for her trump card when nothing else works, or if she just needs a boost to her ego. I hate to sound so harsh, but I know a little bit about how women think and feel......and all of it is not good.

I can only tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes. It is very hard to do when children are involved and I realize that. However, I personally do not think you are going to win her over to being like you want her to be. Not this way. She is not going to change her ways in order to get you back. Before I go any farther, I meant to ask you about this depression of hers. Is she on medication? Have you actually been with her and heard the doctor discuss her "condition" or is this what she or her family has told you? If I were you, I would want to know what is being done about her medical problem b/c people do not have to just suffer with bi-polar and do nothing about it. If it is postpartum depression, then she can be treated for that. Any type of depression can be treated, as far as I know. I'm not sure what this "biological depression" means. But anyway, that is why I can't help but think this is being used as her credit card to throw out there when she needs to cash in on some "excuse" for bad behavior. Based on what you have told us, I get a bad vibe about it. Anyway, if she truly has a medical problem, there is no excuse for her not being under a doctor's treatment continually, and I would think after some point.....there should be signs of improvement. However, think about it. If a person gets what they want in their life by using bad behavior, why would they change? If bad equals rewards, then she is not going to change until she experiences, and is throughly convinced, that bad equals consequences for her actions.

Back to what I started to say before I got off on the "depression" thing......you have worked very hard to over come your lack of self-respect and low self-esteem. I know that was such a hard accomplishment and I really admire anybody who can do that! It takes a very determined person who wants that more than anything. But, a tremdous amount of damage has been done to the marriage relationship and I think it will take a major change for her to realize that she is going to come out of this as the "looser" if she doesn't change things about herself. She will have to want something despartely in order for her to work that hard for it b/c I doubt that she has ever had to before.

This is what I purpose that you do and it is strickly my thoughts about it. It, of course, is your life and your decision. You may want to invest in talking to one of the DB counselors b/c they are very good in their advice. Anyway, I think you should stop all meetings with her, such as eating out with the children or any other get-togethers. In your stitch, I do not think the "friend" path will work b/c she doesn't respect that. You will be spinning your wheels. You should not have any contact with her what-so-ever except where the children are concerned or business. You need to continue in all the self-improvements that you have accomplished and just keep getting better in all of those areas. That is what has won you your self-respect. You need to stay as busy as possible and stay out of your house as much as possible getting a life apart from your wife. Again, do not make any contacts by phone, emails, or anything unless it is almost an emergency or regarding the kids, but don't use the children as an excuse to contact her. I think you said there was already a schedule set in place. Make her stick to "her" schedule she made. As I said before, now that your self-esteem is better, you should know what you will stand for and what you won't, so have those lines drawn in the sand and don't let her or anyone else step over them. That is when we start loosing our self-respect is when we allow others to step over those lines, whether they go by the name of "wife", "boss", "friend" or whoever.

Detaching is the hardest thing you will ever do. You can read all the threads from LBS on this board and they will tell you that it is. I have had many say that they just can't do it and they try to get around it and do other things and all the time, their spouse is "eating cake". In the end, if they do what they should do, they learn that they can detach and that it is hard but it is also healthy for them. It often takes this detachment in order for the spouse to start to open their eyes. I don't know if you have read about "dropping the rope" or not. Picture your wife with one end of a rope tied around her and you holding on to the other end. She is fighting to get away from you while you are holding on for dear life. As long as you are holding tight to that rope, she will fight to get away. However, when you drop that rope and she sees that you are not trying to hold on to her any longer and that you have gone your merry way and living your own life, then if she is ever going to wake up and realize what she has lost, that is when it will happen. In some cases, it has gotten right down to getting a divorce. Some have actually gone through a divorce and then gone back together. There is one thing to consider, and that is the fact that a lot of times when you detach and start living your own life, by the time your spouse wants you back.......you are the one that is no longer interested. I may sound hard hearted and I don't mean to, but the way I see it is that when you have given everything you can and you still get treated this way......that is all there is left to do. If she comes to you wanting to reconcile, and you are no longer interested......she has nobody to blame but herself. Oh, by the way, she will play all her little games with you. She will pull out every trump card she has, so if you go this route......brace yourself for whatever she dreams up. At first, she will think it will be easy to pull her usual sex card. When that doesn't work, it will become more challenging for her and she will try harder. Of course, the first time you turn her down for sex, she will be furious b/c I doubt that has ever happen to her. Should be interesting to see the display of emotions......huh? You can bet before it is over that you will probably see about every emotion that she has b/c that is what she opperates out of.....her emotions.

Well, I know it is a big decision what path you will choose, but let me add this. If you decide to "drop the rope" be positive that is what you know you need to do and that you realize how difficult it will be and be prepared for all her bag of tricks. Sometimes, we have to do what we know we have to do......not what we "want" to do. I know you are a strong person based on what you have already accomplished. I also think you are sick and tired of being abused by somebody that is suppose to love you above all others. I also think she has somebody else on the side-lines, but that is just my gut feeling.

That thought also leads me to tell you this. When getting a life.....be very careful b/c you are vulnerable where sex is concerned and you could find yourself with another woman in a sexual situation that you don't need to be in, so be careful. I'm not preaching, but there are particular bar scenes and places like that, where the atmosphere seems to encouage flirting and picking up dates. If you go "looking".....you will find.

One more thing that I thought of and then I have to go. She may not act interested when/if you drop the rope, if she does have her eye on another man. She may end up messing her life up by getting involved with one man after the other. You need to be prepared for that also. This happens in a lot of cases with women that are like your wife. However, you could not control what she does no matter which path of DBing you choose.

Again, I am not telling you what you have to do. I am just throwing this out there and it is up to you. It is your life and only you can live it. I hope you won't waste a day of it. You sound like a really great person who deserves a wife that loves and appreciates who you are. Time does a lot for the heart.

Take care of yourself,
Sandi2