WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 2

[confusedinpa]

Spellfire,

Thanks again for all your support.

I'm really fighting the urge to get mad as my wife seems bent on getting this divorce.

I must stay focused on my kids.

[MrBond]

If her whole issue is not being able to "get over" how badly you hurt her, then she needs to concentrate on that in her therapy sessions. She has to learn "forgiveness" and move past what she perceives has been her hurt.

Was she abused as a kid by other males in her life? Sometimes it's not even you but you represent something very painful from her past that has been buried inside her.

Until she understands that part of her, then she's not going to budge from the "you hurt me so i can't move on" phase. My W was the same way. Give her space and stop initiating kisses! There's my 2x4. When you're not around she can stop blaming you for everything. She'll soon learn that she is the one who chooses to be miserable and that you are not the root cause of everything.

By wanting a D she's really running away from her own issues rather than facing them.

[confusedinpa]

At the last counseling session what came up was when she was 8, her father cheated on her mom. He left and her mom took him back a few months later. He did it again almost immediately, it sounded like in the span of a year he left 3 times (with the third for good).

She also sees her mom as weak as she kept taking him back (and she still professes her love for her dad, even though he has since remarried).

Also, her dad was a volunteer fireman so he would often leave abruptly. After he left, he didn't come by to support her or her family. When he would say he would stop by, he often wouldn't show up.

What's interesting also is that even now, when he says he's going to come by, she wouldn't tell our kids until he actually calls to say he is inroute (or sometimes not even until he rings the bell). I never noticed that before.

Perhaps I should bring that up in the session.

How about this:

This last four weeks have been very hard.

I can see how frustrated/angry I made her feel when I didn't show any interested in supportting her emotionally (again to acknlowdge how she felt, but direct the emotion to her current emtions).

Its just as frustrating for me now as she has said that logically it makes sense to try again, but her emotions(anger/hurt/pain) are preventing her from trying to find love for someone who hurt her so badly.

Perhaps that's how she felt when her dad kept letting her down but I'm not her dad.

She has also said that it is hard for her to look for support from someone who hurt her so badly, but I want her to know I'm a working on being a better person and I want to be there for her.

What do you think?

[confusedinpa]

Keep your chin up, you are actually doing fine so far. Confusion and indecision on her part are ok, it's a natural stage she needs to go through before believing things can be different. If she is determined to leave and she is no longer expressing confusion, you are in more trouble.

Spellfire,

Here is the confusing part - when she talks about this, she is so sure of her decision. In fact over the last 4 weeks, it changed from a "deciding on a chance of a chance" to "finding a reason to change her mind".

There are some actions that appear like she's conflicted, but there are fewer and fewer this past week.

I thought about "confronting" her about this during counseling - about how this past week she said that she recognizes changes that I have made, but it feels like she's permanently closed her mind and heart to any changes. We'll see how it goes tonite.

I appreciate your support

[Coach]

I thought about "confronting" her about this during counseling

Sure that would be good, go ahead and make her defend herself. how about you be patient, calm and strong in what you are doing. Are you making the changes for yourself or so you will be noticed?

but it feels like she's permanently closed her mind and heart to any changes. We'll see how it goes tonite.

Amazing how you know what she is thinking and how much energy and time you spend on it. You don't believe people can change by what you have written. So if it's permanent why bother? Focus on yourself.

Cheers

[confusedinpa]

Coach

Thank you for your pointed comments

You are right that I must remain strong. This will take time. Clearly people can change. I know I have. So has she. I need to keep working on me so she has a reason to

Confronting her will be a death wish. What do you think about talking about her feelings towards men/her dad?

[confusedinpa]

I was a little more hopeful during the dinner prior to the counseling session. She started saying how proud she was of the changes I've been making and how they will make me such a better person and father. Unfortunately, the problem she is dealing with is that she has been bottling up all the pain for such a long time, she doesn't know how to get past it so she would want me as a husband. We then agreed to talk to the counselor about that.

The counselor then started by asking how it was going. I tried to acknowledge her feelings, but then she pressed me into explaining how I knew/understood them better. Then it got into the past. My wife then jumped on the bandwagon to talk about the past injustices. The killer one was when we had our first dance, I had tried to take some of the stress out of the situation for my by joking about how long the song was. Big mistake. Apparently that had been bugging my wife since that day. It went that way talking about my past stupid moves that just got her more emotional - at least she was crying.

The therapist did say something about her father and how she had anger issues she has to deal with.

I did try to get it back to how will my wife get past the anger/hate, but my therapist started about how we each owned 50% of the problem. My reluctance for connections/intimacy and her ability to express her anger/emotions. Not sure where this is heading. I wanted to work on our relationship, but I guess this is one way to get there.

Very frustrating.

On the way out, I stopped my wife to appologize again for the "long song" comment during our first dance. She cried and I tried to comfort her.

On the way home, she was still upset and when we got home, she said she was going out to get a cup of tea for some alone time.

I'm really annoyed as I was going to get into the whole thing about how my wife was perplexed on how to move past the hurt/hate, but my therapist wanted to understand and get the heart of the issue of what caused it. I guess that's the right way to do it.... or is it........

Only time will tell.

Meanwhile I have my appointment with her Weds and we have a joint one scheduled on Monday (hopefully my wife is still around then).

So how does a DB counselor approach this?

[spellfire]

No idea, I've never talked to one. I actually don't know at all.

Personally I think the fact that she was able to tell you that the long song comment hurt her deeply is a good thing. Truly apologizing for that is one small baby step towards her being able to forgive you. Getting her to open up about the hurt/anger and express it to you may be the path to her recovery.

Not sure if encouraging that gels with DBing, but it seemed to work for me. Each issue we moved through toned down my W's coldness towards me. It was all about how I handled the expression that made the difference. I used to fight her on it, instead I listened and validated it.

I was going to get into the whole thing about how my wife was perplexed on how to move past the hurt/hate

The way for her to move through the hurt/hate is probably to get it off her chest, which your therapist seemed to want to do. Go with it, don't fight it I think. Don't try to force the topic in your sessions. Bring up topics if the opportunity arises, but don't try to assert control over it is probably best.

I still think you are making solid progress. Perhaps now would be a good time to re-read your threads to see if you are more ready to absorb the advice people have given you.

GAL leads to PMA. What have you done to GAL lately?

[confusedinpa]

Last nite when she got back from her alone time, she was still tense (her jaw muscle was still tight). She couldn't find anyplace open to get tea so I made her a cup as she went upstairs to change. We surfed the internet to printout some restaurant coupons for us to use and then she showed me some of her old HS pictures on facebook. I massaged her shoulders lightly as we did that.

When we went to bed, I did give her a light kiss - I could tell she's still uncomfortable with that and before everyone jumps on that one, I know I need to stop :p

We talked a little about the session - she asked that there was one part that she was uncertain of. When she was venting, she expressed some concern about how I would say that it made me sad/hurt. The therapist had said that's ok, as I need to feel that. She asked me what I thought that meant.

I told her I think that I had shut down all my emotions so I stopped enjoying life as well as experiencing the pain/hurt. Feeling both is healthy is what I thought it meant.

My wife then talked about how she felt that I didn't seem to get when the therapist was trying to explain validating the feelings. She explained how it's not "I see how that hurt you and I'm sorry" (which is what I did), but rather "That must have been so hurtful or that is really hurtful/sad". I think I can see the subtle difference, but could really use some more input on this one. Any suggestions or other recomendations?

She then made a comment about how she feels the counseling session is helpful regardless of which direction we head down - divorce or reconcilation. She reiterated how she sees how I'm a much better person now and will be a great father. She just can't get beyond the past to see me as her husband. Very sad. I didn't say anything, I just rubbed her arm lightly. I do have a session with the therapist on Weds (one on one), I have to remember to ask her about that one. I suspect that she will say that this is her decision and there is nothing that I say or do that will affect it.

This morning, I could tell she was tired. I offered to get up to get ready for work first so she could sleep for an extra 20 minutes. I walked over to her side and gave her a light kiss (I know still bad, but at least I stopped climbing almost on top of her to give her the kiss). We talked for a few seconds, but she did reach out and touch my arm as we talked. This was the first time in weeks that she did that. I'm trying not to read any more into this as it was probably just to try and comfort me (I was trying not to talk or act needy, but she does read/know me so well).

I gave her a hug to crack her back before I left for work and just got a check for a kiss.

I am working on getting a life by reconnecting with a few old friends. Unfortunately, none of them are local so I'm not sure if that's really going to help. We have to boys (in 2 months will be 7 and 3) so I'm spending time with them. I've also been focused on getting chores/honey do list items done. I used my weights and heavy bag for the first time last weekend, I'm planning on 2-3 times/week for that. I'm really not sure what else there is to do to GAL - I don't want to do things that make it appear I'm back on the "singles" scene. Any suggestions?

Its still very hard and painful. I know this will take time. The therapist/counselor said that as well. I hope my wife had heard that too.

[confusedinpa]

I'm really hung up on her statement last nite. It's really frustrating

She sees how I'm a much better person now and will be a great father. She just can't get beyond the past to see me as her husband.

Is this the kiss of death? Is it like people we just dating saying they just want to be friends? Is it her easy way of telling me to get over it?

I know I just need to focus on just me but it's hard when I think of my 2 boys.