No I have not asked her why she has not followed through. That is where I'm still on the fence. I don't know how to kindly approach her yet. I also want to give her a couple more months just to gauge if I'm on track or not with her willingness.
I like your digging-for-gold analogy. Glad you finally reached gold.
I know what Barter means, and don't have to look it up. You most definitely said that I was doing these actions for barter (game or not), and I know that is not correct. Maybe we should just drop it.
Note to Corri: It's not a free world. Get in your car, run as many red lights as fast as possible to the nearest deli, walk in and squat on the swiss cheese, piss on it, then walk out like you're any other customer, but stop at the register and pull all the cash out of it. See how free you are after that. In terms of what you say to people, you should be very careful of what you say.
Are you saying that I'm presumptuous? You seem to imply it. If so, please cite examples.
No, it didn't *get* me like you think it does. I suspect that you barely get yourself, let alone me.
Re-read your other post where you did compare me to your H, in a greater way than simply that we are logical thinkers. You compared me to how he kept doing things and doing things, expecting things in return. You know, bartering! You really think we'd last that long together...8.5 seconds?
I brought up the subject of doing good for the sake of feeling good because I was responding to your post, silly. And the relevance goes to the aspect of give and take in a relationship. I know, I know...I think I'm getting your point finally...that I should just do good ad infinitum and expect nothing in return, till death do us part. Got it.
You don't think that a marriage is a partnership? What is it, a Limited Liability Partnership?? I don't think that this is all a marriage is, but I think it's a fair thing to say. Curious what YOU think it is. Might give me some insight into what sort of man you married.
I repeat, I got it: give and expect nothing in return....EVER. (By the way, I mention these things because it is in response to posts that seem to be saying that I should be doing these things....I'm doing them!)
Yes, you're a nut case
Cathy's email did not scare the hair off me. It wasn't like that. It's just nice to see that perspective, and it makes me think harder. What do I really want from my life, that's what I'm spending much of my time thinking about. In the end, it's all a crapshoot.
BTW, I was the first in this thread to say that my wife would easily find someone else if we were to split. she's beautiful. Nevertheless, I think I'd be just fine too. If we'd both be happy, finally, then great! Sorry to sound so flippant.
Quote: No I have not asked her why she has not followed through. That is where I'm still on the fence. I don't know how to kindly approach her yet. I also want to give her a couple more months just to gauge if I'm on track or not with her willingness.
On some other threads, I have seen you post some of the most compassionate, sensible advice I've read with others who face immeasurable pain. I think you can be extraordinarily kind. Of course it is your choice to wait or do it now...asking her what's going on, I mean. But perhaps if you did it now, it would at least ease the ambivalence (sp?) you are feeling and give you some sense of direction.
Of course her answer could very well piss you off, too. No, no, scratch that. Not you.
Quote: I like your digging-for-gold analogy.
Coming from you, a compliment times 10.
Quote: Glad you finally reached gold.
Me, too. Didn't think I'd ever get there.
Quote: I know what Barter means, and don't have to look it up. You most definitely said that I was doing these actions for barter (game or not), and I know that is not correct. Maybe we should just drop it.
I know you know what barter means, and I didn't say you were doing this on purpose. Jesus, man, we all do it. Consider it my none to gentle nudge to spend time thinking about your motives....I know, you probably already do that, too.
And drop it? Drop it?! You mean end all this fun we're having? Not in a million.
Quote: It's not a free world. Get in your car, run as many red lights as fast as possible to the nearest deli, walk in and squat on the swiss cheese, piss on it, then walk out like you're any other customer, but stop at the register and pull all the cash out of it. See how free you are after that. In terms of what you say to people, you should be very careful of what you say.
Ah, dear soul, but it is a free world of choice. I can do all those things that you list above, and yes, there will be consequences. But that does not remove my right or my freedom to choose.
What you describe above is the simple law of physics...for every action there is a reaction, and you proved my point exactly. You are committing action upon action and not getting the reactions you want. You, being the logical man that you are, understand that if this continues to be the case, the most logical step at this point is to change your actions. But to what?
Since you feel, in your logical mind, you have tried all that you can come up with save divorce, why not at least try what seems to be most counter-intuitive, or wussified as someone gently put, and try out the experiments of this lovely nut case you're talking at? As I have asked others, what the hell do you have to lose?
Are you presumptuous? Well, perhaps. You seem to think that a certain someone on these boards is a push-over for the tact he is following. But he, like you, was completely at the end of his rope and all out of ideas. And hey, when the script runs out and tape is still rolling, one must adlib, yes? No one said it was going to work, but give the guy some credit, he's trying. It doesn't mean he's a wuss or a push over or anything other than a man digging for his gold.
Yes, I will be honest in saying I'd like to see you try what he is doing, I really would because in my opinionated, stubborn mind, I really think there is something to it all.
Quote: Re-read your other post where you did compare me to your H, in a greater way than simply that we are logical thinkers. You compared me to how he kept doing things and doing things, expecting things in return. You know, bartering! You really think we'd last that long together...8.5 seconds?
I know what the post says...I wrote it. I was writing an analogy from my own life to illustrate my point. But comparisons aside, it doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong here because it isn't relevant anyway. Just for the logical exercise of it all, for five minutes ponder this. What IF you are bartering? How would you look at things then? What would you do? What would change, if anything? Just suspend belief for fives minutes and ponder, that's all I ask.
And no. I don't think we'd make it 8.5 seconds. I'm down to 6 now. I'll leave go of good deeds for now.
Quote: You don't think that a marriage is a partnership? What is it, a Limited Liability Partnership??
Interesting view. Do you have a pre-nup? That's an LLP if I ever heard one. But as for my own views, yes, I think marriage is a partnership. I put that in there to see if you were paying attention. I do think it's all about give and take...but no where in the rule books does it say anything about equality of the giving and the taking. I understand that you are getting weary, but shore up your docks man. You never know when it's going to be her turn, and what she might be supporting when that happens.
Quote:
Cathy's email did not scare the hair off me.
Yeah? Well, you're more of a man than I am 'cuz it scared the [censored] out of me, and I went through three of my mother's divorces before the age 14.
I have to agree with Cathy is saying that if you and your wife split, it is no guarantee that you will be any happier. It's an odds on bet you won't. Seven years is an enormous investment. You just happen to be in a bull market right now. I think the smart investors ride out the storms knowing that the trends of return favor those who stay in it.
But other than that, I really have no opinion on the matter.
Hey Cloudnine, just what you wanted another female to chime in on this. Check out my sitch on Johanna's thread. Now Johanna might say that I want to solve all the world's problems with blow jobs. I will have to say it isn't so, the most important thing I said to my husband was " how can I help you with this" and if I can't help you I am with you for the duration, I love you for ever and for always, and I want to grow old with you.
Just so ya know, you aint alone here, I get what your trying to say and I know your frustration! I will have to add my thoughts on one thing though. I think the reason you have not asked her if she thinks she has not followed through with the promises and changes, or why she hasn't is because you are afraid that the answer will be the begining of a chain reaction of events that ultimatly lead to divorce. I'd be scared too, hell I am, but I give ya credit man, your tryin yer ass off to find a solution.
Cathy... You post some good stuff, in fact I've been thinking about one of your last posts to me all day, because I may have gotten to that point.
On a less serious note, Cloud, I love your brand of sarcasm...throw rocks at Barbara Streisands house, piss on the cheese, good stuff... shows you still have your humor, keep it, it may be the thing that gets you through.
P.S. I bet you and me could chase Corri out of a room in 3.2 sec.
LOL Now aren't you GLAD you posted here? Got a lot more than you bargained for didn't you? You came here looking for support and probably didn't expect all this name calling, insincere, condescending etc. At least its given you loads to think about.
I really feel you should let your W know whats going on in your mind and SOON. Do it after her birthday if you prefer to be gentle. Your W isn't trying hard enough, isn't doing half of the things she said she would. She either:
1) knows she is not doing enough but something is holding her back and she is not saying 2) is in major big time denial, although knowing she is not doing enough, has shaken it off or is not thinking enough about it hoping the problem will simply go away (afterall you have not indicated to her your unhappiness, so maybe it will go away - you are aiding her in her denial by not telling her) 3) is blissfully unaware that she is not doing enough (which is probably not the case since she has said otherwise in therapy, but is still possible - again you are not helping matters by not telling her
As with regards, what I would say to your W, if the something that is holing her back is your past history, I would say to her that is the most dumb thing she is doing and to cut it out! I have a similar issue in my relationship with my H where he had a PA with a coworker and lied to me about working late etc but thats in the past. I have never brought it up again and never will, not in anger anyway. We have a good, loving R now and I will not be so stupid as to let a past hurt continue to hurt my M in the present. But then again, she did say that is not the issue. Sigh, its hard man, isn't it? Just go and tell her. M is a partnership like you said, so tell her and let her deal with it like a partner should. Good luck. LH
Quote: P.S. I bet you and me could chase Corri out of a room in 3.2 sec.
Well, Jim, if you get to join the fray, then I get to bring Cathy along. That may drop us to under 1 second, or we could have the most interesting debate in history.
I'm not all bad. I did get carried away yesterday with my post, but Brian has said over and over that he is a man of action. He does have a great sense of humor, he is very intelligent, he can be wonderfully compassionate and sensible, he's obviously in a great deal of pain because he does love his wife and family so much....but he is also very quick to anger...understandably so...and I think he is going to have to get a grip on it if he wants to make constructive progress in his marriage.
There I go throwing my opinions around again. *sigh*
I do agree with you 100% that he is putting off speaking to his wife about her efforts, or lack thereof, because of fear....and who can blame him. I was trying to find a constructive use for that anger of his, so I purposely set him off. In hindsight it seems to me that I might be trying to play God...certainly patronizing at the very least.
Well, my apologies to all, especially to you Brian for coming across way harsher than I had any right to do. (I, by the way, had the freedom to make that choice, but once followed, now have to face the consequences.
So I will hie myself off now for a nice breakfast of fried crow with a yummy side of humble pie. You and Brian may throw your feet up on my table, and savor your smugness while you watch me do it.
Hey Jim, sorry to hear things are getting to "that point." Just don't let it get to the point of no return. As for running Corri out of a room, I'm not so sure. Taking history into account it seems to me that it's you guys who back off first. You were always taking a break from your thread for some reason or another. Now cloudnine has not checked in this morning. Us girls seem to be the only ones still in the room.
Of course that probably isn't a good thing. The objective is to help, not to run off. Things get heated when you get so many different perspectives on one subject, especially when someone is in pain. People can feel like there cheese has been pissed on. Sometimes I think us girls are just to upfront for you guys Not sure that is a good thing or a bad thing.
This thread has been fun and full of good advice. I hope it continues cause it's a slow time for me and I need the entertainment and stimulation. Who said STIMULATION?!?! Cathy~
Good morning everyone. I have a day chock-full of meetings, and will have to respond later. Enjoy your meal Corri
I have read this morning all of the posts since yesterday, and am sifting them out to respond in kind later this afternoon. I'm certain that after a nice, gentle day of office politics, backstabbing, and surviving shark tanks for another day, I'll be in the right frame of mind to thoughtfully respond to all recent posts.
In the meantime, I'll keep thinking of dead puppies, lest a single sexual thought crosses my mind.
Quote: Well, Jim, if you get to join the fray, then I get to bring Cathy along. That may drop us to under 1 second, or we could have the most interesting debate in history.
Or we might get so heated up from the whole thing that we all rip each other cloths off LOL There I go again! Sorry
That may drop us to under 1 second, or we could have the most interesting debate in history.
There I go again! Sorry 