Hello Everyone:

Wow. What a thread.

Cloudnine, I think everyone here has offered you heartfelt advice, and I think everyone here understands first-hand your deep hurt, resentment and fustration...at least on a personal level.

I think where the advice is coming from is the fact that some people here (MPT and Sooner) have found courses of action to try, something they can do to try and improve their marriages. These courses of action may not work for you...but for the moment, they are feeling and acting upon what they have not felt in a good number of years....honest to goodness, genuine HOPE.

And that's really all any of us can do. But at least now they have something to hold on to where before they were immersed in despair. I believe that if you found your true nugget of hope, your one plan of action that to you made good sense and seemed like it had a better than average chance of working, you'd work your ass off on it to save your marriage. I mean, you want your marriage to work.

I don't think it's sad that Sooner felt 'bad' about having the nerve to 'touch' his wife. I don't think that is what he was feeling bad about. I think he felt bad for 'tripping' the sex argument yet again. And if within the confines of his marriage he can find the key for lasting improvement, I think he would very willing go without sex for a period of time if it indeed is the thing needed to bring about permanent change.

It may be, it may not be. But he was honest enough to say that the route he is on is one that he had not tried yet...at least not heart-felt or long enough to bring about any kind of result. But God, at least now he has HOPE. He's feeling better about himself, his general outlook has improved...and I think his wife is changing...but as MPT says, because she is not 'trying' (or not in the way most of us here feel she should be), and because she isn't the one who feels like she has the 'problem,' the changes Sooner is making to himself will take a bit longer to take effect on her because she's not dealing with the same reality.

But that's Sooner. Not you.

That's really all you are looking for, yes? Hope? To me it sounds like you are missing that critical action plan. It sounds to me like you feel you have tried everything under the sun and then some, and you are left standing there with the one option you don't really want to follow, but feel is the only course of action left to you. Divorce.

I believe Cathy said to you that you should seriously consider communicating with your wife the feelings you have posted here. I'm sure everyone concurs. The only caveat I would offer is hauling your wife back into therapy with you to do it. Your resentment and anger is palpable, understandably so, and I think in order for your wife to hear your message, not your anger, you should do it in therapy. I'm not suggesting you plunk down another couple grand in therapy costs...maybe just a few more sessions so you can be certain your wife has heard your message....you are at the end of your rope and are within a few months of leaving for good.

I don't believe you communicating this to her is necessarily an ultimatium on your part. I think you are feeling desperate, and as the final effort you can make before departing, you can go to therapy with her one last time to communicate this to her in the most CLEAR, loving, honest way possible. You may run the risk of blowing up on her, or being overly caustic and critical if you do it by yourselves because of your (understandable) anger and fustration...and then she more than likely won't truly hear you.

Perhaps another option you can try before taking the radical road to divorce is a seperation. If you go to therapy with your wife and are able to communicate to her your level of despair so she truly understands it, and then leave for a time to make certain this is something YOU truly want, it allows you to step to the edge of the abyss and take a peek over before actually jumping...and underscores to your wife just how miserable you are. If she didn't get the message before, I don't know how she could miss it. But to be fair to saving your marriage, stay in therapy if you explore this course.

The seperation route can backfire on the both of you. One or both of you may decide to chuck it all together, and then this option didn't really serve it's purpose. However, if you are half-way out the door already....???? It's a definate risk. Only you can decide if it's one worth taking.

Can I ask you some questions? I'm curious to know how old your children are? Does your wife work outside the home? Have either of you been previously married? Do you work long hours, typically? Is there a measured age difference between you (more than say, seven years)? Would your shrink say the two of you have trust issues? What are your wife's parents like? What were yours like?

Anyway, I hope you continue to hang here with us. You never know, together we may all bumble upon the nugget of hope you are seeking.

Corri