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[Still Living]

I had to take a step back from the forum for a bit. I have not seen my wife for over 3 months and I don't feel it even registers with her. She has been coming and going as she pleases from the house, and I asked her to come when I am there but she has ignored my request so I changed the locks a week ago. We talked the other day, our usual once a month conversation, because she wants her mail. I sort of baited her to cook me dinner and she gave me every excuse under the sun, which eventually ended with a txt message from her for me to leave her alone. I immediately called and txt her back as to what that meant and got no response. She called two days later about her mail and when I asked about the txt she said it txt was referring to me asking her to cook for me she didn't mean it that way. Anyway, I am so angry at this stage I don't want to give her the mail. She is only calling because she needs something. I am tired; she needs to fend for herself on every level. I just want to detach and let go and let GOD and stop these meaningless conversations. These are the things that bother me the most if you guys could lend a thought or suggestion I would appreciate it.


Is it unfair/damaging for me to ask about/for boundaries or the specifics of our separation while in the LRT? We never had a meaningful adult conversation about this other than her saying she needed to find herself.

If I detach, does that mean no communication at all, even on special days? Our anniversary is coming up

I know it's is not good to assume so is it wrong for me to inquire through her or on my own if there is someone else at this point in the game? No proof, but its painfully obvious

I have not been to church since our separation and I do not wish to or feel I have to find another church, not sure what to do.

We are getting close to pushing a year and its getting lonely out here. I want nothing more than for our M to work. I have just been evoking my faith trying to hold on but it's getting harder suppressing the wanting to be wanted feeling.

She has not talked divorce nor given me back the dissolution papers but says we failed and we have gone as far as we can go. Our last talk she said "just let it work itself out". What is she really saying?

_________
Me 36
W 30
no kids
T 11
M 5

[Grace_O]

Hey Lyfe,

I sort of baited her to cook me dinner and she gave me every excuse under the sun, which eventually ended with a txt message from her for me to leave her alone. I immediately called and txt her back as to what that meant and got no response.

Leave it alone. You knew what she meant and were trying to goad her into a conversation. I know how lonely it gets and how much it hurts. Stop. It won't help you.

Anyway, I am so angry at this stage I don't want to give her the mail. She is only calling because she needs something. I am tired; she needs to fend for herself on every level. I just want to detach and let go and let GOD and stop these meaningless conversations.

Sadly, anger is part of the process. What do you do when you get angry to diffuse it? I started walking when I'd get angry, I still find that any type of physical activity really helps me. It allows me to clear my head and not be so reactive.

Is it unfair/damaging for me to ask about/for boundaries or the specifics of our separation

What are your boundaries? Do you know what you want? What are you looking for in a convo about this? My H also said he needed to go "find himself" and "be happy". I don't know what you think you'll learn by asking her other than that it doesn't include you (at least at this point). How will that help you?

If I detach, does that mean no communication at all, even on special days? Our anniversary is coming up

I wouldn't instigate it. I don't say anything on my anniversary (don't call, text, no card, etc). As for other special days I tend to follow his lead. Christmas I did get a small gift for him (and he gave me something also). I'm not planning anything for Valentines Day (I'll probably have a card or something very small if he leaves something for me). The difference in my case is we have kids, so we see each other on holidays and weekly for that matter.

I know it's is not good to assume so is it wrong for me to inquire through her or on my own if there is someone else at this point in the game? No proof, but its painfully obvious

You're right. Don't assume. Why is it obvious?

We are getting close to pushing a year and its getting lonely out here. I want nothing more than for our M to work. I have just been evoking my faith trying to hold on but it's getting harder suppressing the wanting to be wanted feeling

I know about lonely too (it's been 2 years for me). My only advise there is decide what you want and if you decide to leave it and move on be done "officially" before involving anyone else. It isn't fair to them or you.

How patient can you (and do you want) to be? This is a tough road and it takes alot of PATIENCE and introspection.

Take Care

[Punktmann]

Lyfe, some quick forum advice. If you want people to help, stick with one thread until it locks up, then start a new one. Not a new thread for each issue. It makes it 100 times easier for people who are trying to follow your story to find you and keep up with events.


Welcome to MLC. Or rather, welcome to the place where you are among friends who actually understand.

Then I get a txt one day in Aug 08 that we failed in our marriage and that she doesnt want to continue on and that she gave up a long time ago actually years ago.....

W sent me a txt saying be honest about our situation and let her go...........

And then....

When she got there, I explained the dissolution papers and she starts to cry and says she knew I was not trying to be with her and that she could not believe I went and talked to an attorney.........

Also...

My grandfather passed and I chose not to tell my W due to her lack of concern for my father. I just could not take a chance at being disappointed again. Well, she found out somehow and let me know in a txt that she couldn't believe I would do something like that. I called her to explain, but she has yet to respond.

Ok, here's your first 2x4. Everything is your fault. If you tell her, you're trying to reconnect w/ her from need and causing pressure. If you don't, when she finds out she feels guilt, and guilt is pressure.

Get used to this right now, today. Go ahead and vent about it here, but expect it from this point forward.

Please search for and read MLC Resources on this thread or it's archive.

My counselor said I should give myself a time limit for when I should say enough is enough waiting for her to come around because Im causing myself more emotional damage.

That's an interesting approach, but I'm not sure I agree. I think that it's a little healthier, for you, to assign the point of no return to certain "events." E.g. she moves in with OM, she files for D, she empties all bank accounts, etc. Also known as setting boundaries. I suppose that a time limit could also be considered an "event," or boundary, but unless it gets extremely long, it just doesn't seem very patient or loving when considering the nature of MLC.

Perhaps that just doesn't agree with me b/c kids were involved in my sit.


Best, Punkt.

[Punktmann]

Lyfe, for the MLCer, anything that makes them feel pressure is driving them away, not pulling them closer.

I sort of baited her to cook me dinner and she gave me every excuse under the sun, which eventually ended with a txt message from her for me to leave her alone. I immediately called and txt her back as to what that meant and got no response.

"Come home, be my wife again." Pressure. Stop it.

Anyway, I am so angry at this stage I don't want to give her the mail. She is only calling because she needs something. I am tired; she needs to fend for herself on every level. I just want to detach and let go and let GOD and stop these meaningless conversations.

Not just pressure here, but you're playing into being the bad guy.

MLCers are looking for justification of their actions 24/7. "See, he's such a jerk he won't even give me my mail... I can't stay with this guy..."

Don't even think about this kind of thing. This journey will give you a new understanding of being the bigger man.

I have not been to church since our separation and I do not wish to or feel I have to find another church, not sure what to do.

See above. Find a new church. Be the bigger person. Get your rear back in church, if you're faithful, you need this.

She has not talked divorce nor given me back the dissolution papers but says we failed and we have gone as far as we can go. Our last talk she said "just let it work itself out". What is she really saying?

She is saying leave me alone. She is saying I'm going to decide the fate of our marriage alone.

She is right.

"He who can destroy a thing controls that thing" (Forgive my misquote.)

You cannot save your marriage if she is truly bent on destroying it.

You CAN save you. In the process of saving you, you can become someone that she respects.

Respect is the basis of friendship, and therefore love.

You mentioned a lack of respect in some earlier interactions, that would be a place to start as you look to your LRT.

Leave off the pressure.
No childish interactions/reactions, (mail...)
Draw your boundaries and stick to them.


If the mail / her coming and going as if you're furniture thing bothers you, (and it should,) then draw a boundary. Forward her mail to her, and send any mail that gets through to her immediately. When she asks, tell her it's too difficult for you to deal with her doing that.

Get your rear back in church, and forget about it being "your" church. It's God's church, and he's waiting in all of them.


Best,

Punkt.

[Punktmann]

Lyfe, oops, sorry, I left something out.

Everything is your fault. If you tell her, you're trying to reconnect w/ her from need and causing pressure. If you don't, when she finds out she feels guilt, and guilt is pressure.

Get used to this right now, today. Go ahead and vent about it here, but expect it from this point forward.

The thing is, everything is your fault b/c they are searching for a reason to leave.

This is easy to hear, easy to say ok, I get it, but in reality, it keeps biting us in the rear.

In reality, it's a matter of someone who is in the process of leaving, wants to leave, and is searching for a reason. Every interaction that leads to conflict is a reason. Every conflict that you give in to leads to a reason, (he's not the man I knew, no-one I can respect.)

The simple fact is that you can't be "right," so you might as well be "a man," or more to the point, be who you were at the beginning, be strong, be yourself, and don't punk out to the "alien."


Best,

Punkt.

[Still Living]

Hey Grace_O, thank you for your thoughts, I totally agree with you about me not being in her life at this point. Therefore, discussing boundaries or anything of that nature with her would just be a prelude to drama. Over the course of our M, my W has had many flags, and I have often felt that she was very capable and or involving herself in situations that would undermind our M. I have practiced patience on every level and felt and realized that I may at some point have to deal with her growing up and maturing since I embraced her at a younger age than myself. Now though, I think I may have been a little too passive. I checked the mistakes to the best of my knowledge but maybe I was just trying against too many obstacles to hold us together in an effort to reinforce our foundation.I knew things were not always gonna be perfect.

You asked why is it obvious that there is someone else and my answer/s would equate to a short novel. So for the sake of the forum I will just list a few things. And I could still be mistaken, but my heart says I am not. These things occurred 6-9 months leading up to our separation.

**Dropped her cell acct, which we had together and changed her number when she contracted with another carrier. Guards her phone as if its Fort Knox. Everyone in her phone is listed under a nickname.

**No intimacy and W sleeps on the couch most of the time. We may have an encounter once a month if that and more than likely its because I asked or initiated.

**She recently started a new job and comes home one day and states that a guy she met who was interviewing at the same time, left his cell number with a security guard for her and that she wanted to call him. Also with this new job, she would never come home after work. She would call and say she was going to see about her father who is sick. At the time, I did not think anything of it because her father is sick, but now I wish I had followed up. He has been sick for years and she had never been this involved with his health in the past.

**At this new job, she tells me that she made me 90% beneficiary and gave her sister 10%. She wanted to make sure this was all right with me. This happened a few days before she left.

**Says things that are very disrespectful to our M. "I need to get rid of you", "How do you know Im not gonna get married twice", "I don't have to tell every man im married". One day at work, when we worked for the same employer, she was talking to the guy she had an EA with, and I asked her to stop it and that I was tired of him being up under her all the time. I also stated that he didn't even speak to me when I approached. She says I'm tired of both of you; you both need to speak to each other. I could go on, but you get the idea

**We decided to go see a fertility specialist last April because we were having problems getting pregnant, after deciding to have kids. By the end of July, she tells me she started taking the pill. I asked why she would do that and I got all these lame excuses.

**I know should have not done this, but a few weeks ago on her birthday I woke up about 5:30 in the morning and just went on auto pilot. I drove past her mothers house and her fathers house with whom she states is where she resides. Her car was absent at both locations. I felt horrible after I did that, but it was the first time and only time I looked for her since our separation.

None of these things make sense to me; hence I said that it was obvious there was someone else.

[Punktmann]

Lyfe, this is a tough time of year for the LBS, that doesn't mean we should sit around and contemplate the lint in our belly-buttons.

What are your ideas about GAL-ing?

If you can't think of at least one or two, then you should take a step back and consider. It's kind of like a safety belt, by finding some ways to GAL back you'll build your safety cushion as well as become more like the man she first met.


Grace said,

Sadly, anger is part of the process. What do you do when you get angry to diffuse it?

Heck yes that's part of the process. Let's not fool ourselves. You have to manage that part of your life though so it doesn't manage you, work out, walk, run, hammer nails, build something. Anger is damaging to you, not anyone else. Sure you can use it to pi55 them off, but how does that help YOU? It doesn't. Oh, and then, whatever you did in anger is one more thing that "you did wrong."


AND

I know about lonely too (it's been 2 years for me). My only advise there is decide what you want and if you decide to leave it and move on be done "officially" before involving anyone else. It isn't fair to them or you.

I can't agree enough.

Decide what your course first. Maybe it'll take a bit, cool your jets while you figure it out.

Then IF it's a split you want, spend some time to get your stuff together before you involve someone else, otherwise they're just cleaning up the wreckage.

It isn't right to use someone else as a rebound.



Why is it obvious?

From your post, it probably IS obvious, but remember that everyone here is only seeing a small part of the picture.

Let's say she IS having an A. How does that make a difference?

Is there a boundary there that you would enforce if she is having an A?

It comes down to this. Only you can decide whether to stand or not. Only you can decide where your boundaries are that would cause you to stop standing.

Is it bad behavior? an EA? a PA? What are you willing to do or put up with for your marriage?

Decide those things first. Until you have the horse before the cart, snooping is only going to keep you in a cycle of hurt.

Snooping isn't going to help you in ANY way.

FWIW, my X did almost ALL of those same things. I know it sucks.

Oh, and this...

**We decided to go see a fertility specialist last April because we were having problems getting pregnant, after deciding to have kids. By the end of July, she tells me she started taking the pill. I asked why she would do that and I got all these lame excuses.

You're right to raise an eyebrow to this if the marriage goal was to have kids, but...

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a person have kids in order to "save" a marriage.

At this point, with your doubts and her behavior, it would be the very definition of irresponsible to try to have kids unless A LOT of things got worked out first.

Kids won't save a failing marriage, they'll only be collateral damage and victims of one's own selfishness if brought into this world for that reason.

The pain you're feeling is a scratch in the paint compared to what a child goes through.

FWIW, my XW talked about having a third or adopting about a year before the D.

She was trying to find her way. She was trying to find a way to stay connected to the family unit. It wouldn't have made a difference, and it would have wrecked one more life.

They're going to find "their way," regardless, or in spite of, us. All we can do is be strong, and not become the wreck this threatens to make us.



Be strong.


Punkt.

[Still Waters]

Hey Lyfe, you and I seem to have a similar situation. We're both in our 30s with no kids and dealing with a WAW/MLC.

The things everyone has told you are completely true. The only thing you can do right now is GAL, keep a PMA, and detach from your W as much as possible. Almost anything you do is going to be spun in her mind to justify why she should leave, even if you do things purely out of love for her and your marriage. She's a confused alien who's looking for something, anything, to justify her selfish behavior. Don't give her any more ammunition!

My W had an affair (PA/EA), which started a month or so before she moved out. I didn't discover it until it had been going on for a few months, but when I did I exposed it. I happen to be in favor of exposure, but I know some people aren't. Depends on the situation. For me it helped make my W realize that what she had done was wrong by bringing the A to the light of day. So at the very least it made my W realize that she made a bad decision by having an A and made her vow to become a better person and do the right thing going forward. Whether this helps our M remains to be seem, but I do know that there is no way you can piece your M back together while your W is having an affair. The A either needs to fizzle out (which can take anywhere from 6 months to a year or so), or you can try to speed things up by exposing. Either way there are no guarantees.

But the absolute most important thing you can do is to leave her alone and focus on your own happiness. You need to "drop the rope" and stop trying to tug her back to you. If she calls or emails, then you should respond. But don't pursue! And yes, you shouldn't contact her at all (even on special days) unless she contacts you first. Remember: NO PRESSURE. Put the ball in her court and when she passes it to you, pass it right back to her!

[Still Living]

Thanks Punkt for all the wisdom and advice, this is a very troubling time for me. If there were some real issues like me cheating, mistreating, abusing; mentally, verbally or physically, just anything, this might not be so hard to deal with. Some days I wake up wondering why I cry, why am I hurting and feeling pain about this when I can honestly say I felt I was losing her a while ago. It was just her level of respect and the betrayal. I asked for MC on a regular basis and my W just refused. I would tell her we don't have all the tools and we could learn how to do things better, but there was nothing I could do to get her to commit to anything of that nature. We've just been like roommates, I was not even able to get her to come together to handle our finances as a couple. It's like she was a master at keeping us separate on many levels. But even with that, from my perception I felt we were doing ok; NORMAL, hence we had decided to have kids earlier last year. NOTHING MAKES SENSE. I just did not see us going through the types of things like the marriages of our family or friends, but they were making it. I would ask my W that all the time. Why we were not making it?

I have chosen to honor my vows and to love my W unconditionally, and I think that is where she failed. Through all of her misdoings, nothing had changed how I felt about her. I think I have grown to be wiser now. I have been the better man for years for the sake of the M. Sometimes I just want to fight fire with fire. I have done everything for my W. She has it so easy. I spoiled her. But isn't that what I'm supposed to do? I guess I'm just venting, but you were right about that quote: he who controls a thing destroys and thing. I have been the better man, and its getting heavy on me. For instance, dealing with all the betrayal and disrespect, it took me months to change the locks, not going to church; I was still handling her affairs months after the separation. I still come home and see her things. And this bothers me the most, and I have not found a better way to deal with it. We used to work in the same office building up until July 08, and everyday someone is asking me about my W. How is she doing? When is she coming back? Tell her I said hi. She still has friends there, I know somebody knows. I just look like I'm in denial. I'm getting to the point where I might get on the intercom and tell the whole company we are separated, but who am I fooling, no one would believe it or there would be more questions. She is not dealing with things like this.

Again, you are so right, everything has been my fault and I have learned to accept where she is at mentally. I think she is also still trying to bait me into an argument, but I avoid. Like you said, I would just be giving her more reasons to justify what she's doing. The other day I called my W about the mail situation and left a message that she could come by to pick it up the next day. She calls a few hours later and tells me she could not take the call because she was at the movies. Side note, she refused to go to the movies with me or complained about it. She would say that's all we do, but would often go to the movies with her family or girlfriends. Then I also tell her my father was rushed to ER so that's why I did not get back to her promptly and that he is still pretty much fighting for his life. So I assume she is trying to be consoling by telling me about somebody she has been talking to about a similar situation where this somebody's mother has cancer or what not. Well eventually that somebody starts turning into a he and a him. Who does something like that like that?

[Still Living]

Hey Still, thanks for your comments, I've been learning a lot from so many people here; its comforting to know you're not by yourself. I read up on some of your sitch and I wish I had done things to get intel. I was sort of laxed about it and it bothers me to this day. I would tell myself to follow her one day, check the mileage of her car, put some type of program on the computer, put a recorder in place; all sorts of things. I never did any, and I regret that because it makes everything circumstantial, my word against my W word. The only resolve I have is that her actions spoke volumes to me more than anything, but when you just don't know anything about anything, you just wonder. This is me. I heard something years ago and it kinda helps me make sense about the not knowing: "You don't have to see air to know you're breathing it in". Kinda like what sandi2 was saying about the apple. My W will never admit to anything, too much pride and righteousness. Furthermore, after our bout with MC a few years back, the MC told me snooping was a bad idea and an invasion of privacy and that may have played a part in my timidness to not follow up on my intuitions THIS TIME. My response to the MC was that if I had never done what I had done, I would not have known what had been occurring in the M.

In your threads, you also mention speaking with your W parents and I wish that was an option for me. At every bad situation, where my W threatened our future I tried to speak with her parents just to be cut off. From my W account, her parents did not have a good marriage, so maybe that is why I got these responeses:

1st issue where wife did not come home one night, I went to talk to her father and he pretty much told me he did not want to hear it, and whatever the case that that was his daughter and he would take her side regardless. Hence, that changed the dynamics of my relationship with her father.

2nd issues that led to MC where my W was involved in an EA, very possible PA, I figured I would talk to my W mother. My W mother has a PhD and is a standout influential member of a very big church where we live, but I was reluctant to speak with her because of how she treated me over the years. She pretty much did not accept me until we were married. And again, I pretty much received the same response. My W mother told me not to bring that nonsense in her house and that I should have not been invading my W privacy. She said it was my fault and that I should not have pried. Here, the dynamics were already aloof and this just made it worse for me.

I have not seen my W in months and it gets hard; really hard, but God does not give you anything you can't handle. I stay in my Bible, I stay in DR and close to family and that's getting me through, as well as insight and support of this forum. I wish I had found it before our separation. When my W denounced our M through a txt message, while I was at work, she said "I left not knowing if I would ever return. I have thought strongly about leaving, but did not want the heartache, yours and mine after all these years. I know you will bounce back". I think I'm gonna change my name from Lyfe to Living. I have not given up hope, but being in limbo is not a healthy place.