Um, first to the men who want to talk to their w's about the A's they think (or proved) that the w's had...why do you want to bring it up if they don't want to talk about it? I mean to say, are your w's wanting to stay M or are they on the fence?
If they want to stay M, then they'll need to own their issues and get you to trust them again and you'll have to own whatever part you played in it. Seems simple. But I noticed 2 men saying they are bringing it up and if it's something the w does not want to discuss yet, nothing will be gained by pushing. It'll appear punitive like you are trying to shame them, which always always backfires...even when it isn't your goal. Focus on what you can do and be as a partner for them so they won't vilify you to justify their actions. At this time, avoid going on and on about the R talk even though you understandably want to know wth happened and why. They may not know themselves and need time to sort it out. You probably have to back off for now. Take their cues on this.
Of course if they're trying to build trust with you again, then figure it all out as to what you need from them and be clear. But stop and think long, before you ask for "details". Explanations yes, details...not... Get mc if you can, or call for a DB session. ( I find them the most useful of all steps) I don't see how the gory details help but I guess some people....gotta know it all. I wonder how many couples move forward after an A and how they do it. There are books on it, called "After the A" so maybe read that first before confronting your w's about it.
MEL/MEL/MEL....
the talks are good and bad. The good news? He clearly does care. (He ain't exactly indifferent you know). The bad news? You both want to agree on the M's history and you will not ever agree on it. Period. It's a waste of time. It is NOT a waste of time to learn the love language of the other party so that you can go forward knowing how to give and recognize love from that person, but it is a waste of time to keep score of the past. You don't have the same score card, weren't using the same ones then, and you don't use the same graph or pen to keep score with now. It will NOT match.
Your statement about "loving each other but not feeling loved by the other" IS IT in a nutshell. That sums it up and even he will likely agree to that one statement. Don't go further about who showed more, or had fewer needs met...don't shoulder too much blame either. It begs the question; what would it take for each of you to feel loved by the other and is the other willing to do that? I assume you've read "The Five Love Languages"? Very helpful to my sitch.
Just ask yourself what it would take to go forward from now on, dealing with him. DO NOT ASK HIM THIS QUESTION NOW....for now, I'd do the "talking like friends" as long as no lines are crossed, and let that develop and evolve so that maybe you can at least have a decent R with him about the kids. Then who knows what will happen? Maybe he'll get sober and you'll reconcile. My cousin did, but it took 8 years... But a half decent friendship just so happens to be also a basis for more, maybe, later on.
Back off on wanting more just now, or on getting a divorce. Sit still a little while. Do you believe that YOU could get past the crap he's thrown at you notwithstanding the comments in the email? Do you think you could actually calmly interact and love this man again fully, if he keeps drinking, and sees ow or whatever she is --I think it's a PA but I have no proof, but I think he does not love her so in his mind she is a non-issue perhaps...or an easily justified one...but she IS an issue obviously...
The email was revealing yes. But we're left with his actions. I'd keep the focus on the fact that you'll have to agree to disagree on some of the memories (keep some good ones though!) of the M, and how to go forward with d, to do right by her. Meanwhile be a "woman only a fool would leave..." THEN, when he brings crap up, throw it back onto the PRESENT DAY..avoid the mind reading and call him on it when he does it to you. If need be, Call him on his drinking and his ow activiites in the PRESENT....put a statute of limitations on past "sins" and maybe you should both agree to that. You won't recall the past the same anyhow, so why bother bringing it up?
Isn't enough poop happening in your lives NOW, to stay on track with what you are doing TODAY, trying to move forward...must you mire yourselves in the unchangeable pasts? NO! (that's the correct answer Mel, "no"...)
yi yi yiiiii
((( hugs )))
( j )
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
