Which direction do I go?

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Ping,

First, know that most LBSers would give an arm to be in this position. Despite this, I don't envy you really. I mean, yes it's great to have some choice in the matter and to have two good women caring for you...but no it sucks to know someone will be hurt in the end....and, you take my point...
But know that each woman poses risks to your heart. No R or M is risk free. You have not known this new woman for long. How long did you know your first w before you M?

I want to take a few different approaches to this. Lots to consider.

First, please Forgive my "intuitive guessing" here, but for some reason, I would like for a moment, to pretend you are a woman in your sitch, instead of a man. I don't know why but I think we'd be pretty united in advising you to try hard to reconcile. We'd say, "There are children, (!)" (remember when that was the most important thing??) and there were no OP's involved and no substance abuse or violence.... For many many LBSers, that's way more than enough to try again, right there. .

I think we'd say "try and make the family work and say 'bye bye' to the new 'man"'... I honestly have not seen a woman on this site advised to say "no" to a reconciliation with the father of her children, regardless of what her exh did, (except violence or heavy drinking). But I see a lot of men in the same sitch staying on the fence for too long and it confuses me. Thought it might clarify things for you to take the other gender's point of view though. Don't know what the hell that means, but it's a tangent so if it didn't strike you just let it go...now back to your sitch now.

I am struck by the fact that you now live an hour away from your kids cuz I don't get it. Thought I'd say it outright so you know. I don't want to judge you b/c you were the LBSer and you sound like a really great guy. I get that. I have 2 divorced brothers who act very different with their kids. One brother is a pilot & attorney and has turned down a good 5 great jobs out of state, jobs with better pay and long term promise, and he turned down numerous prestigious jobs at local firms b/c of the long hours or the travel away from his girls. And he has moved 3 times locally to "match" his ex W's moves, so he could live in the same school district and the girls could then stay at his home during the week.....

and my other brother (another lawyer) got a D, and moved 500 miles away to D.C. for a job. That job ended, and he accepted a decent paying but "exciting sounding" JOB overseas in IRAQ, has been there 9 months of each of the past 4 years and is now going to Afghanistan..never re-applied for jobs in his hometown and really made his money in real estate which he could have done anywhere...

and his only child (d18) graduates this year from high school....he is like a fun 'uncle' to my wonderful niece. Thank God my ex sil remarried a good man who acts as niece's "real" father, not my brother. What a difference. I love both my brothers but... Which type of father do you want to be?

And here's another thought...

Let's say you pass up this chance to reconcile with your w and instead choose to pursue R with new woman. You have no idea where the new R will go. Will it end after it runs its' course? Okay. Yikes, what a mistake to have given up on the M's chance for a re-do....What if the new R ends up in a M? If so, will THAT M last? Why so? Why not?...and what happens to your kids if you are in a new R/M? Will you have even less time with them, as you make room for your "new family"?

I fear it will haunt you for a life time if you don't try again, and God only knows what your kids will think of you, or love, or commitment or most important, what they will learn about forgiveness. It could very well appear to your kids that you are not forgiving her, and that is why you won't reconcile. And since you live away from the kids, how would that choice further effect them?

Here's what we "know". You have a w who came out of her fog and is making a move towards reconciliation of some sort, and it seems safe to say she has done some soul searching. You say she cannot tell you what you want to hear, so that means two things to me: 1) you want to trust her, you want her to say something about COMMITMENT to the M, which means deep down you want that too, if you can feel safe with her, which is understandable but actually revealing....and, 2) your expectation of clarity from your wife under these circumstances is not realistic and probably would not sound healthy to us in the sense that you two could be totally apart from each other with little to no contact, and then xw could spontaneously slap her head and say "Let's reunite! NOW!" We'd all say whoa, slow down Ping.

But what is really confusing you? ...Is it really just the OW that gives you pause? You need to check your heart/ego/soul on that question, b/c it's really easy for our egos and our need to be "right, " to stop us from forgiving and our hearts are afraid of being hurt again, and that stops us from moving on back to our spouses....when OP exists we cling to the idea that happiness lies with them and they help us prove how wrong the ex'es were...

Your W has had a significant "experience" of some sort; Ping. She seems to have had an epiphany or awakening, or miracle, or whatever you want to call it; it's what LBSers here pray feverishly for over years and years...can you be grateful for this gift, no matter what?

At some level deep within, make sure you search your soul for anything that remotely suggests "teaching her a lesson" or of her "getting what she deserves" or "made her bed so...blah blah blah" it is ALL punitive and NOT coming from a place of love. Love? Yes the love you once had for her and probably still do, love For your original M, your children and no matter what else is said, we do have to try and come from a place of love. Not doormat, but love. The line between setting healthy boundaries versus enabling crappy behavior is a blurry damn line. And a shifting one too!

I think most of us struggle with finding our way thru this maze so that on one hand, we don't lose our self respect but OTOH, we can't hang onto false pride. The line between enforcing a new boundary that's healthy, versus giving them a taste of what we went thru, all in the name of "teaching them a lesson"...oh it's a tiny little waving line and you need to be really honest.

While your w cannot say "I get it now!" and be totally trusted as to her certainty, (and she's not saying that anyhow...) But she can say, she was wrong and she'll own up to her issues...and that she is praying and listening to God. Query: Is this new behavior? Once upon a time, was she at least somewhat religious? Or is this the very first time those words have come out of her mouth? Obviously that's relevant.

Last but not least, what if you do reconcile with your wife and it does work? What would that mean to you, and to your children? To your children, it could mean leaving a "legacy" to them. Seeing their parents deeply wound each other, and divorce. But then seeing them find/choose to find their love within and letting it flourish without fear...and FORGIVING each other in its' holiest meaning, accepting each other warts and all, seeing each other through God's eyes, and re-connecting and recommitting...the value of that legacy is priceless...What a gift you could give them...

Just be honest with both these women. They deserve that. But one of them is also the mother of your children and once upon a time you made vows to her.

Even if you recon and things don't work out, so what? You get hurt again....that can happen no matter who you are with and you'd still know you tried to forgive and move on. And the new woman? Somehow I think she'll understand.

I vote for the kids. Pursue or explore whatever this is with your w. See how long this epiphany lasts but be there for your w regardless. She is trying to sort through some painful realizations and it benefits both of you to have a better R and it sure is good for the kids to see you interacting more positively.

Don't over analyze what she was thinking and how she could go dark on you and what that meant...it was a colossal waste of my time wondering wth h was doing/thinking/feeling. My h left to live 3000 miles away to pursue a pretty crazy fantasy but the thing is, mere hours after he took the big credential test up there, literally, he called me as if to say, "where is everyone?" As if he suddenly realized that we were here and he was there and that....it was all due to his choices.
Kept asking me/us to join him and saying "When will you?" and honestly it was kind of far out there. He seems more normal now, but these partners of ours can go off and act sooo wacky and nasty for a time. You never thought your xw could do that but you know, you also don't think your present gf could either. No guarantees either way...

FWIW, I have two family members (aunt/uncle and a cousin) who divorced and remarried their ex's years later. They had kids that kept them in some sort of contact and eventually my uncle asked my aunt if she was happier and she said not really, and they started to date....and 7 years ago he died of cancer with his wife and children at his bedside. My cousin and his w divorced and remarried 8 years later. They've been together now for 14 years. Both relatives say the 2nd time around was better, btw.

Do you think if your w followed some course of action that you could open your heart to her again? If so, I sure think that's the thing to at least try so you'll know for sure. Otherwise you'll always wonder, and the kids will too.
From my point of view, thus far, I'm glad I stuck it out. Hey, I could still be wrong, but for now I'm just glad to be here and we are a work in progress.

Good luck,
( j )