The Unfaithful Wife - That's Still Me #3

[rustie]

"Rustie, I agree, we are getting things said. It really hurts to hear them, but we have both been holding in for 13 years."

I remember after my H's affair the huge discussions we'd get in. Things "came out" that had never ever been said. At the time I thought I hated all of that. Looking back on it now, I realize it was a big part of what helped to bring us back together.

Some of it (a lot of it?) may hurt. But I believe that you need to really consider some of the things that he is saying to you. Think about if you could change some of the things that he mentions are problems.

One thing that really stood out to me was the comment your H made about these communications "helping" him. That, I believe, was a complete give away. If he is "done" .. what does he need help with?

Just my thoughts ..
rustie

[Mellenmack]

Rustie,

You are an angel. I hadn't looked at it that way. When he says "done", I think of my need to tie things up in a neat little box and store them away. It amazes me sometimes how well I DON'T know him, and that makes me feel very selfish and very guilty. It's only been the last 6 years that I know to order him a burger with no tomatoes and no pickles. Sad, really, to think how well I don't know him. I want to change those things. I want to live more....I don't know what you want to call it, but I know that it was IMPOSSIBLE to do it under the guise of lies. The M may not make it, but at least I am NOT LYING anymore and that is a huge weight off my shoulders. I never have to lie about anything again no matter how bad or sad it is.

Sorry I am on here all day but I took the day off from work. Had to get cavities filled. (part of my gal...okay, part of my pma...take better care of myself??)

Melissa

[K4D]

Hey Mel,

When you had your affair, were you angry all the time at your H? Did you nitpick at him and just constantly avoid him?

I'm trying to figure out if my W was feeling guilty all that time or if it was something besides the affair. She was angry at me for months after it occured. Of course she was angry before then to. But she nit picked at me and nothing I did was right.

She basically admitted the affair Monday and said she didn't want to talk about it. I know it occured sometime in October just from timeline of events and when I saw her text messages. I don't know if it was ongoing after that or not.

But would guilt from that make her angry all the time at me for anything and everything and make her constantly not want to be seen in public with me?

Or is it just that she was done and just didn't care anymore?

Kevin

[Mellenmack]

Aww, ((((Kevin)))), I wish I had answers for you. I was upset, but I was keeping it in because he was overseas, and it was my part to play dutiful wife and not let on that anything was wrong. but towards the time of him coming home, i knew that i couldn't wait until he was home and then be like, oh yeah, i'm leaving you. that wasn't right either. Lord, none a friggin bit of it was right. I thought i was mad at him for the choices we had made in the marriage, but really, i was mad, pissed off, and disappointed in myself and just taking it out on him.

she knows damn good and well she was wrong. she prolly knows she ought to be ashamed of herself. OTHER THAN THIS INSTANCE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY HER MORALS WERE? I mean, how was she brought up? Did you always trust her to make the right decisions before this? Was she the person you could always depend on to do the right thing? If so, then i think her guilt is what you are *paying* for. If not, then i think she is just selfish and doesn't care about what's right or wrong, as long as she is happy she can justify it.

I don't know Kevin. It's hard to answer. I didn't hate my H so much that I couldn't be seen in public with him. But he didn't push my buttons like I know you are pushing hers. Sorry for the 2x4. I felt guilty that I couldn't be what he deserved. But I knew that wasn't his fault, too. As hurt as we both have been, I did try very hard to maintain some objectivity to the stitch. I may not have succeeded very well, but I have tried to be the first to say "I crossed the line" or "I was too emotional" or whatever.

dunno.

Melissa

[MrBond]

Mel,

Well at least you were honest with him and upfront. My W is still in denial about her A and gets upset if the subject comes up. She buries it all in and I'm afraid that if she doesn't let it out and acknowledge it for herself, she's going to repeat the whole thing all over again.

[K4D]

My wife won't talk about it. She also gets very upset if brought up. I don't knowif she cares or not. I know that she used to be extremely moral on the issue and had real issues with her friend doing it. So I have to think there is some guilt to it. But on the other hand, she has changed so much that I don't know if much guilts her or bothers her anymore.

Kevin

[SRTTF]

Hi Mel

You make me lmao. You know I really wish my H was still in the same town so we could actually have a conversation or 2. I guess I just stay dark until he contacts me. Over 2 weeks now. With all that you have on your mind you continue to lyao and smile and that alone gives me hope.

[25yearsmlc]

Geez Mel, I leave for a day and wham!!!

Um, first to the men who want to talk to their w's about the A's they think (or proved) that the w's had...why do you want to bring it up if they don't want to talk about it? I mean to say, are your w's wanting to stay M or are they on the fence?

If they want to stay M, then they'll need to own their issues and get you to trust them again and you'll have to own whatever part you played in it. Seems simple. But I noticed 2 men saying they are bringing it up and if it's something the w does not want to discuss yet, nothing will be gained by pushing. It'll appear punitive like you are trying to shame them, which always always backfires...even when it isn't your goal. Focus on what you can do and be as a partner for them so they won't vilify you to justify their actions. At this time, avoid going on and on about the R talk even though you understandably want to know wth happened and why. They may not know themselves and need time to sort it out. You probably have to back off for now. Take their cues on this.

Of course if they're trying to build trust with you again, then figure it all out as to what you need from them and be clear. But stop and think long, before you ask for "details". Explanations yes, details...not... Get mc if you can, or call for a DB session. ( I find them the most useful of all steps) I don't see how the gory details help but I guess some people....gotta know it all. I wonder how many couples move forward after an A and how they do it. There are books on it, called "After the A" so maybe read that first before confronting your w's about it.

MEL/MEL/MEL....

the talks are good and bad. The good news? He clearly does care. (He ain't exactly indifferent you know). The bad news? You both want to agree on the M's history and you will not ever agree on it. Period. It's a waste of time. It is NOT a waste of time to learn the love language of the other party so that you can go forward knowing how to give and recognize love from that person, but it is a waste of time to keep score of the past. You don't have the same score card, weren't using the same ones then, and you don't use the same graph or pen to keep score with now. It will NOT match.

Your statement about "loving each other but not feeling loved by the other" IS IT in a nutshell. That sums it up and even he will likely agree to that one statement. Don't go further about who showed more, or had fewer needs met...don't shoulder too much blame either. It begs the question; what would it take for each of you to feel loved by the other and is the other willing to do that? I assume you've read "The Five Love Languages"? Very helpful to my sitch.

Just ask yourself what it would take to go forward from now on, dealing with him. DO NOT ASK HIM THIS QUESTION NOW....for now, I'd do the "talking like friends" as long as no lines are crossed, and let that develop and evolve so that maybe you can at least have a decent R with him about the kids. Then who knows what will happen? Maybe he'll get sober and you'll reconcile. My cousin did, but it took 8 years... But a half decent friendship just so happens to be also a basis for more, maybe, later on.

Back off on wanting more just now, or on getting a divorce. Sit still a little while. Do you believe that YOU could get past the crap he's thrown at you notwithstanding the comments in the email? Do you think you could actually calmly interact and love this man again fully, if he keeps drinking, and sees ow or whatever she is --I think it's a PA but I have no proof, but I think he does not love her so in his mind she is a non-issue perhaps...or an easily justified one...but she IS an issue obviously...

The email was revealing yes. But we're left with his actions. I'd keep the focus on the fact that you'll have to agree to disagree on some of the memories (keep some good ones though!) of the M, and how to go forward with d, to do right by her. Meanwhile be a "woman only a fool would leave..." THEN, when he brings crap up, throw it back onto the PRESENT DAY..avoid the mind reading and call him on it when he does it to you. If need be, Call him on his drinking and his ow activiites in the PRESENT....put a statute of limitations on past "sins" and maybe you should both agree to that. You won't recall the past the same anyhow, so why bother bringing it up?

Isn't enough poop happening in your lives NOW, to stay on track with what you are doing TODAY, trying to move forward...must you mire yourselves in the unchangeable pasts? NO! (that's the correct answer Mel, "no"...)

yi yi yiiiii

((( hugs )))

( j )

[MrBond]

Sorry to hijack Mel, but to address MLC's question about the acknowledgement of the A.

In my sitch, my W was always paranoid about me cheating on her. Her father walked out on her mom when she was 6, so I think she always had that fear. And I'm not exaggerating this either. Up until the month she had the A she kept asking me if I would ever cheat on her and I said 'no'. Now she's been saying this for 17 years.

What happens is that people who are fixated on things like that end up becoming what they fear. Which in her case is a cheater. What ends up happening is her denial and shame, embarrassment, anger at herself, etc. get projected onto me. It's pretty textbook psychology especially for those with low self-esteem. This is from what I've read and from my C.

What will happen is that because in her mind I'm the cause of her misery she believes that moving on is her best option. But what'll end up happening is that she'll repeat the same pattern in her next relationship until her self-esteem issues are resolved.

I'm perfectly happy to let her go off and discover this on her own, however I don't want my kids to be dragged along with her on her journey.

From her actions, she's shown that a part of her knows it was wrong and is trying to do little things for me. However, she's convinced herself that she's never loved me ever and so will want nothing more to do with me. It's her own internal struggle.

I have already lovingly opened the door for her to leave any time she wanted to and set her free. However, she came home on her own without any prodding from me yet considers us separated and she says we can never be together again.

So that's why in my sitch, that understanding of who she is and why she did what she did is so important to her understanding herself and our R.

Whew!

[25yearsmlc]

Mel,

how are you doing now?

[[[Stuck - where is your thread so we can follow your sitch in your own spot? Since I used to have trouble with posting the threads and the site has changed some, I'm not sure if you also have trouble posting your own thread or if I just cannot find it--no offense meant btw - I just don't want to ignore your post but want to put it wherever you are hangin' out )]]

But Mel, you are really at a confused place, and so is he. Fine. But the thing that is so great in this one instance is that you were both able to see past your anger, momentarily I realize, but still. And what you saw in both of your posts was love, compassion, and pain, and then a lot of anger.


Since we knew about the anger....what we learned is mostly good. Here is what is NOT confusing...He still drinks, but alludes to possibly having a problem with it. Don't hold your breath, but you can inwardly acknowlege that it is a potentially good sign... He is "with" OW, in some... totally unacceptable form. And in denial about it. And He is too angry to be with you right now.

I say all this b/c I want to nudge you into realizing that even though your feelings are deeply mixed, you do "know" the scoop here. You know what has to happen and that it may not happen ever, or "in time" for you. So, keep GAL, having a PMA, and that does NOT preclude you from keeping your heart and mind open to at least a decent R with him...or more, later on. Remember my cousin who divorced and remarried his ex 8 years later? They both don't drink now. Or at least she doesn't. And it had been a problem for her. HE didn't "make her" go to AA. They divorced! She went later on, all on her own. They had a kid, saw each other occasionally and eventually often enough b/c cool things with their kid winning some events, allowed them to become friends again. And the rest is history. But if she had not stopped the booze, none of that would or could or should have happened. Make sense? Oh btw, they are happier now than they were all those years ago and this 2nd M is now 14 years long...

In some ways, your path is really clear. Hard, but not complicated. Painful as hell, but under these circumstances...simple. Do you get what I'm saying? If and when the circumstances change....Well, then you cross that bridge. No need to plan ahead on all that. Too many unknowns and you have a full plate today, now. And btw, do you want to stay in NM or what? Is it all about him? his job?

((( hugs )))

( j )