Exposing at EA

[Puppy Dog Tails]

The Boy Scouts motto rings true in the world of DB: "Always be prepared."

OK, so I'll help you be prepared.

This is what she is going to do:

She is going to confess, to something LESS than what the truth is. She's feeling guilty, and she's going to either cop to some kind of fuzzy, passive-voiced, morally-equivalent "mistakes were made -- by BOTH of us" b.s., or -- more likely -- she's going to admit to ONE LEVEL LESS than what the true nature of her relationship is with this other man.

Very few wayward spouses continue to deny that ANYTHING is going on, for any length of time. It's too hard to cover up, and the guilt does eat at them. Rather, you'll find that:

"There's absolutely nothing going on" = inappropriate friendship

"We're just friends" = EA

EA = PA

It's script.

Your response is perfect:

I'm thinking I'll tell her that as long as she has any contact with this guy that she and I have nothing to talk about. I want to tell her that I'm not perfect either, that people make mistakes, and that I can and will forgive her. But only if she cuts off all contact and ends the affair.

DO NOT WAVER ON THIS. Say the same damned thing 5x if you have to (and you likely will, if not in this convo, but in the weeks and months ahead).

Go ahead and meet with her, in a day or so. Just don't be at her beckon call. When you do meet, just LISTEN. DO NOT START -- let her go first. ASK nothing, EXPECT nothing.

Depending on what she says, THANK her for telling you. Hopefully, you can say "thank you for telling me the truth," but if you have to, don't be afraid to say "Thank you for telling me. It makes me really sad, but the truth is that I feel like I can't trust you right now. I'd like to believe you, but you've damaged my trust, and it's going to take awhile to get it back. I'm willing to work with you on that, if you are willing to end all contact with him and come back and fully work on our marriage."

or some such.

Puppy

[Still Waters]

It really is script isn't it. Amazing.

This helps a lot, Puppy. I didn't think that she'd most likely confess to a lesser "crime," but that makes so much sense. People always do that when they're feeling guilty but don't want to take full responsibility for their actions.

OK I think I have a good handle on this. I just need to listen, listen, listen, thank her for telling me, and then give her a very brief rundown of where I stand. I can't get into the blame game or some kind of long discussion about our R.

Strength and honor, strength and honor, strength and honor. Just need to keep that running in the back of my head so I keep my cool and say what NEEDS to be said, which is much different than what I WANT to say to her (which wouldn't be appropriate to write here since it would be filled with expletives.)

[Puppy Dog Tails]

OK I think I have a good handle on this. I just need to listen, listen, listen, thank her for telling me, and then give her a very brief rundown of where I stand.

I don't even necessarily think you have to do that, MrM (and by the way, it's time you changed your username to something more positive -- you're not making so many mistakes anymore!). Don't feel obligated or compelled to reply, other than with the "thank you for telling me" stuff and maybe a "you've given me something to think about" or some such.

Or maybe "My position hasn't changed, but I do thank you for being honest with me, and giving me something to think about."

THIS IS IMPORTANT. She is going to be looking for some kind of response from YOU, the purpose of which is primarily to ease her pain and relieve her guilt... to make her feel "he's okay with what I'm doing."

It is not your job nor your desire to rescue her from the consequences of her infidelity.

Puppy

[Still Waters]

OK, but I should tell her that unless she cuts off all contact with OM then we have nothing to talk about, right? That's what I meant by a rundown of where I stand. I guess that's more of a boundary than anything.

And you're right, I really do need to change my name. It's crazy to think how clueless I was before I found DR and this forum. Now I feel so much stronger and in control. I can't control my W but I sure as heck can and have taken back control over my life.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

OK, but I should tell her that unless she cuts off all contact with OM then we have nothing to talk about, right? That's what I meant by a rundown of where I stand. I guess that's more of a boundary than anything.

Only if it's in response to some sort of half-assed fidelity promise from her. Otherwise, you've already told her this, and there's no sense reiterating it now. Learn to practice the art of NOT necessarily answering every issue/complaint she puts out on the table, at least not immediately. DO let her know she's been HEARD ... just maybe not ANSWERED, yet.

If that (some sort of partial promised no-contact, short of 100% no-contact, including full transparency) is NOT what the context of what she has to say, then just merely wait for the day and convo where it is. Trust me, it will be sooner, rather than later, esp. if you hold your ground.

Puppy

[sandi2]

Dear Waiting Patiently and Mr. Mistakes, I would like to comment on this quote by WP:

I don't know what your beliefs are, but I'm a Christian, and what I am really beginning to struggle with is the judgement I am passing on my W for all of this. I don't want to just sit back and judge her because we are all sinners and all make mistakes, so it's hard to step back and not do that, but at the same time she just continues in this horrible cycle and won't/can't stop. Anyhow, I guess my point is to try to extend grace to your W and recognize that while she is hurting you and lying to you, you too are an imperfect person capable of the same kinds of sins.

I can appreciate what WP is saying and I agree with him. However, the scripture also says that we will know them by the fruit they bear. So, we don't always have to sit ourselves up as a "Judge" to know what they are doing or what they have bcome. In fact, we don't have to judge an apple to know just by looking at it that it is, in fact.....an apple! We have been educated in what an apple looks like, smells like and tastes like. We know many ways an apple can be used, how it grows, etc. We know quite a bit about apples from the information we gathered regarding facts about them.

I understand forgiveness and "grace"......believe me I do and appreciate it so very much and have experienced it so very much! However, I believe whether you are a Christian or not, you have a right, as a spouse, to know if your W/H is being unfaithful to you. As you said....don't be a doormat. Don't turn a blind eye, either.

The Bible says there is a time for everything. There is a time for showing tough love and a time to be soft like velvet. There is a time for standing strong and unyielding and a time for forgiveness and grace. It is just my opinion that he needs to gather the information and decide if he has an apple living in his house!

Take care,
Sandi2

[sandi2]

Mr. M, just read about your W wanting to talk to you and I really don't see the need to give her an answer period. I think if you just got up and left and let her stew in her own mess for a few days that it would be good for her. Certainly do not do what you are tempted about "everyone makes mistakes....blah, blah, blah." That is just what she wants you to say! But, if you say nothing.....then she is left to wonder what you are going to do and how you are feeling. Time for her to suffer some of the consequenses for her actions, don't you think? Small price to pay if she has been unfaithful.

"But only if she cuts it off completely with the OM. Until she does that, then she and I have nothing to talk about."

You could be sorry in the long run for making this "threat". For one thing, she will see it as a threat, and then she will see it as you being controlling and any other excuse she can find to through in for good measure. It could just end any chance of her breaking it off with the OM and push her to go farther with him. But the point is that you may decide later that was the wrong answer to give right now. It does sound like an answer made out of anger and I don't think you need to show any emotion at all. Without showing emotion, it will make her wonder what you are feeling, thinking, etc. If by chance, you decide later to go the "friend-ly" route with her, you can tell her that you do not know how long you can continue any R with her.....even one of being friend-ly if she contines contact with the OM. I'm sure Puppy has explained the difference in being friends with a wife who has cheated on you and acting friend-ly towards her.

Again, that is just my POV. I know my H was always infamous about not giving an anwer to my questions or a response to what I said, so I know from experience that she won't fall over dead if you walk out without a word. I do agree with Puppy....she is setting you up for a bigger announcement. She is going to give it to you in small doses, I think. If you just sit there and continue to look at her for a few minutes and then slowly get up and walk out the door......if you are at her place (preferably)....I personally think, as a woman, it would make a bigger impact. But, I suppose it all depends on just how much she will reveal tonight.

Let us know how it goes.

Sandi

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Dear Waiting Patiently and Mr. Mistakes, I would like to comment on this quote by WP:

I don't know what your beliefs are, but I'm a Christian, and what I am really beginning to struggle with is the judgement I am passing on my W for all of this. I don't want to just sit back and judge her because we are all sinners and all make mistakes, so it's hard to step back and not do that, but at the same time she just continues in this horrible cycle and won't/can't stop. Anyhow, I guess my point is to try to extend grace to your W and recognize that while she is hurting you and lying to you, you too are an imperfect person capable of the same kinds of sins.

I can appreciate what WP is saying and I agree with him. However, the scripture also says that we will know them by the fruit they bear. So, we don't always have to sit ourselves up as a "Judge" to know what they are doing or what they have bcome. In fact, we don't have to judge an apple to know just by looking at it that it is, in fact.....an apple! We have been educated in what an apple looks like, smells like and tastes like. We know many ways an apple can be used, how it grows, etc. We know quite a bit about apples from the information we gathered regarding facts about them.

I understand forgiveness and "grace"......believe me I do and appreciate it so very much and have experienced it so very much! However, I believe whether you are a Christian or not, you have a right, as a spouse, to know if your W/H is being unfaithful to you. As you said....don't be a doormat. Don't turn a blind eye, either.

The Bible says there is a time for everything. There is a time for showing tough love and a time to be soft like velvet. There is a time for standing strong and unyielding and a time for forgiveness and grace. It is just my opinion that he needs to gather the information and decide if he has an apple living in his house!

Take care,
Sandi2

Sandi,

That post was thoughtful and beautiful. I can't think of a single thing to add.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Mr. M, just read about your W wanting to talk to you and I really don't see the need to give her an answer period. I think if you just got up and left and let her stew in her own mess for a few days that it would be good for her. Certainly do not do what you are tempted about "everyone makes mistakes....blah, blah, blah." That is just what she wants you to say! But, if you say nothing.....then she is left to wonder what you are going to do and how you are feeling. Time for her to suffer some of the consequenses for her actions, don't you think? Small price to pay if she has been unfaithful.

"But only if she cuts it off completely with the OM. Until she does that, then she and I have nothing to talk about."

You could be sorry in the long run for making this "threat". For one thing, she will see it as a threat, and then she will see it as you being controlling and any other excuse she can find to through in for good measure. It could just end any chance of her breaking it off with the OM and push her to go farther with him.

Sandi, I don't see this as a threat. I see it as a BOUNDARY of MrM's. He's not saying "You can't have any contact with OM," he's saying "I can't live in a marriage (or even want to have a discussion about a marriage) where one partner chooses to invite a third person into it for an inappropriate relationship."

Until his wife ends all contact with her boyfriend, not only is there nothing to discuss, but -- physiologically -- she's in no condition to even discuss it if he DID want to. Her brain is simply awash in love dopamine.

Puppy

[Still Waters]

My W came over last night and we talked. One thing is clear: she's a MESS.

Puppy, she did EXACTLY what you said she would. She confessed to a "minor" affair and said that she called and texted this guy a few times after flirting with him once. It's a different guy from the one I suspected, but I do know him as a friend of a friend. We'll see what a "few times" really means once I get the phone bill. I did thank her for telling me what she did though.

She broke down sobbing, worse than I've ever seen her cry, a number of times as we talked. I'm talking uncontrollable body-shaking sobbing. Weeping really, like the way someone does when someone they love dies. It really scared me, but I kept my cool and my distance and only comforted her with my words. Which was hard because I wanted to throw my arms around her, but I know that would have been the wrong thing to do.

She said that there isn't any one man she's interested in and that she just just wants to be free. The whole "running into an open field" thing again. I told her that if she was going to keep in contact with this OM, or if she was going to date any other people, then she and I had nothing to talk about.

Sandi, I don't see this as a threat either. I made it clear that she's free to do whatever she wants. But that I have my own boundaries. And if she's seeing other people then, unless it's an emergency, I don't want to see or hear from her. Maybe this is the wrong tactic for our marriage but it's the right move for ME.

She said that she still goes back and forth over whether or not she wants a divorce, but that right now she wants one. I made it clear that what she just told me doesn't change how I feel. I still do not want a divorce and so I will not file. Well, that got her upset. She wants me to gift wrap a divorce for her, to make her feel like what she's doing is OK, and that's just not going to happen. She said that I was "punishing" her for not filing and I said "I understand why you think that, but that's not my intention. I'm not filing because I don't want a divorce, just like you want to file because you want one." She understood after I said that and said that I was doing the right thing.

What I took away most from our convo is how miserable she is. Her family, and now some of her friends, are telling her that she's making a mistake. She feels very alone, and scared, and is very depressed. She said she's barely keeping it together at work and worries about how long she'll be able to do that.

She also said that she's doing this so maybe she and I have a chance down the road, maybe 6 or so months from now. Typical WAS stuff. At least she realizes that chances are that if she does come back to me down the road that there's a very good chance I won't be waiting for her. She said that to me, so I'm glad she sees that I've GAL and that I'm strong enough to move forward with or without her.

I told her that I understood how she feels and validated her feelings, but I did not physically comfort her and I kept it together even though I felt like crying right along with her. It's terrible to see someone you love in such torment, regardless of how bad their behavior has been.

We left it with her saying that she was going to date other people if she wanted, and that therefore she and I have nothing to talk about. So radio silence is in full effect. She also said that she wouldn't do anything that disrespected me and I looked her in the eyes and said, very calmly, "You mean besides dating other people." And that got her crying again. I didn't want to make her cry, but come on. How can you say that you would never do anything to disrespect your husband in one breath and then say you're going to date other people while you're still married in the very next breath? It's like someone took her brain and made scrambled eggs with it.

Right now I feel terrible for my W, but I'm proud of myself. She said that she expected me to flip out and start throwing furniture and trashing the place when she confessed her EA. She even said that she was afraid that I would physically hurt her, which is insane. I've never laid a finger on her or any woman. I know that my actual reaction (still waters run deep) totally messed with her head. She kept saying "I don't understand how you're so calm!"

I have to thank you, Puppy (and Sandi and WP as well) for preparing me for this. You guys gave me a heads up that went a long way towards making me feel more in control of my words and actions. If it wasn't for you and DR I know that I would have done all the wrong things last night and come out of that convo feeling like mush. But right now I feel like a rock.