H just moved out, 13 months post-bomb

[Dawn of Hope]

So, what kind of books do you read? I have always been an avid reader! I love the sappy romance novels! Nothing with any redeeming literary value! Pure fairytale!! Cinderella, but give me the details!!! And I used to love staying up all night with a good book. It was definitely my vice. A real addiction. (A healthier one than most) But, I can't do that anymore. My attention span is nil and I fall asleep. But, I still buy books by my favorite authors hoping that someday I will get that back.

Take it easy, (((((Dawn)))))!

Hey, SC, thanks for posting to me! I'm not into the Harlequin romance type of thing (the older I get, the less interested I am in reading explicit details about other people's sex lives, and that's even more true now that I don't have one of my own any more! ). Since the bomb started making sex scenes turn my stomach (and I wasn't like that before, believe me!), I have been focusing on murder mysteries, with a little fantasy and historical novels mixed in here and there. I especially like the mysteries by Janet Evanovich (Stephanie Plum series), Elizabeth Peters (Amelia Peabody series), Diane Mott Davidson (Goldy Bear series), Sue Grafton (Kinsey Millhone series), Rex Stout (Nero Wolfe series), and more others than I can think of at 2 a.m. I'm also a huge fan of Diana Gabaldon (Outlander series, and Lord John offshoot series) and Mercedes Lackey (fantasy; I think I've read everything she's published--about 80 books--but my favorites are the Valdemar series and the more loosely-connected Elemental Mage books). It's a good day anytime I discover some other author that I really like.

I still struggle with getting myself NOT to stay up all night reading! Definitely an addiction for me too, although I temporarily kicked it post-bomb, but now there's nobody to be bothered except me if I don't go to bed until sunrise. Harder to get oneself motivated when there's no accountability.

I am fortunate to live in an area with one of the best library systems in the country, and the librarians at my local branch know me by name, since they normally see me a couple of times a week! So many books; so little time...

Peace,
Dawn

[25yearsmlc]

Dawn,

First time I've posted to you but I've read your sitch. It's a hard one. Your snooping brought you great pain, and I'm so glad you were able to eventually stop it. That was huge.

But here are my questions for you. What are the changes you refer to making, doing? I mean, what 180's are you doing? What did you do differently around your h that would make him think your changes are both good for the M, and lasting?

What I got from your story is that the depression was a huge issue for the M. THe meds affected your sex life and without them you got way too down. I also don't hear much about your family of origin. Mom and brother?

In the past You had threatened suicide if he left and implicitly were saying it was his job to save your life and keep you "happy" enough not to take your life. Wow, that's a lot to ask of someone.

So, why would he think you've changed? B/C you act upbeat around him? Good. B/C you don't cry around him? Good. What else? I mean I understand he needs his space...whatever...but you gave him space in the house and it almost killed your soul and showed him what? From what I read, you gave him the "polite but shortish on convo, roomate" behavior.

What do you think he gets from OW that he didn't get from you, other than PA? He talked to her for hours, but when he wanted to talk to you, you refused. So, how did that work for you? I read that and thought, wth? Why refuse to talk with him?

My DB coach gave me some tough but useful advice. She said that when my h would call from his "planet", (first more schooling--he's already an MD, and then off to Alaska...long story) for me to 'LISTEN LIKE A LOVER , or Best friend, (depending on what you can handle.)

"Contrast the negative images he's using to justify his actions, with positives. Don't fuel the negatives". So, if he says you won't even talk to him, TALK. For me, I had to decide about intimacy issues when he visited and as far as I know there was no OW, or maybe I should call her "Alaska", but anyhow, bottom line was to contrast the place he was, with a warm, loving home with laughter, and fun, and create as many good memories of NOW time, as possible."

At this time, are you pretty much moving on to GAL or do you still want to restore your M? Given the type of c you want, (and good luck finding all that in one c) it seems you want to stay M. So what type of contact do you have with h?

Are you pretty much waiting without any contact, and hoping his memories of the M long ago, will re-surface and that he'll return? Will his memories be good? Or have his revisions (and some things that are fair and accurate but that you may have glossed over) made him think he was miserable the whole time?

What is your action plan and GAL plan? I note that you read a lot and so do I. But it is isolating, time consuming when work is due, and with your working from home without employees, you are alone far too much don't you think? For now anyhow? You really should increase the teaching if you can, or get outside, or do a serious 180, not bandaids. Interesting to note that it cleared your head of h for awhile. Side note, when I do theater, it requires my total focus and those are the times I got out of the whole H drama. BUT it even helped me forget back pain after a surgery, so there's something about our mindset and dealing with pain. (Sorry your h wrecked the show for you with is weirdness...I love theater. Tacky to have ow there...and at some point he will be embarrassed by her appearance and who knows how that will affect him. ...you have NO control over it and you do know that so I'm glad we don't have to harp on that.

Please know that threatening suicide can be a life saver if you are sending out a red flare to the universe (I loved the story of the hotline voicemail...excellent...). But it's also an incredible burden to put on someone. Not unlike an alcoholic who will get drunk every time you upset them or places their drinking problems on your shoulders. It can be very unfair and manipulative. Do you think your h was attracted to that at one time? Isn't he using it against you now in the sense that he has asked you outright if you were going to do it if he left? Can you see how that made HIM feel?

Have you ever apologized to h for that? Can you tell him not to worry about you now as you are GAL and a lot stronger now that you've gone thru this, and THANK HIM for that? I mean that'd be a 180 and it would show him he does not have to carry you all his life. Remember that you have to be a woman only a fool would leave. And you are. So why on earth would a man think you'd fall apart without him? . OTOH, does he know you loved him madly and did he want you to fight for him? I have 2 relatives who divorced and later remarried, years later. But they kept in touch after the initial phase of the D.

And he'll see your working improving...and OW will lose her luster as her neediness and dependence grows and yours does the opposite. If that makes him stay with her, I'd be surprised. Seems he wants to rescue and save and if she is "another hopeless case", he'll quit that. If he requires the person to be in obvious need of dependence and rescue and pity, as her weight suggests, then he has his own issues. And he does have them. The whole SL is soooo "Dwight Shrute"
from the tv show "The Office". I know you don't watch tv, but there are some hilarious shows out there, some that even touch on this topic showing how pathetic and nerdy it is to "live" a virtual life when you can have a real one. But then, what do your books do for you? I noticed a lot of fantasy material listed. Hmmm.

Anyhow, you have made great progress. I went to several c's b/c a lot said throw the towel in, and h didn't care for any of the ones who said he should stop acting like a single man when he makes geographic choices, and he didn't like them and they ALL said that. So I got some coaching from DB and that was the single most helpful thing, and 2nd, I did find a pro-m t who likes DB stuff but does not advertise as such. He's also Christian but won't shove it down your throat if you aren't. I am.

If you suffer from SAD (I sure did in Alaska) MOVE to a sunny place if you and h don't end up together. Why are you in a place for so long when you are still struggling financially? I mean, no kids and both working...what costs so much, before the OW I mean? Travel? '

Have you thought of relocating (I know it's a separate issue but when times are tough, I don't get why people don't go where the money is, OR the houses are cheaper and their salaries are comparable--Texas for one--just a thought. I am affected by weather and live here now and am so glad I can count on taking a walk in the sun almost every day. When it rains, we need it and it won't last long. But dang, the gray skies of the NW and the darkness of the long arctic winter sucked for me.

That's it for now. Hope you are fine with this post as it's intended to help.
( j )

[glamgirl]

Checking on you Dawn. I am from the camp that says love unconditionally. So that would mean wishing your h a Happy Birthday regardless of the life he chooses.

You can't have any expectations nor can you be hurt if he doesn't respond or even say thank you. How would you feel if that happened?

I remember wishing h Merry Christmas one year, make that 2 years without any acknowledgement. No even a simple thank you, but I forged on ahead. It was for me not him. You decide what would work for you.

Sometimes you never know until you try.

[25yearsmlc]

Dawn
Have you seen a L, just to know your rights? I did, even though I am one. I'm not a divorce L nor was I licensed in this state. So I shopped around to meet a L I could connect with and boy, the universe sure sent me in the right direction.

In my sitch, my h is an MD who had a real obesssion/fetish for Alaska. So when I got a referral, I went and met a L who's father was a doctor who had left her mother to live in Alaska, I kid you NOT....(her dad said leaving her mom was the biggest mistake of his life, and he later crashed his plane up there and died...her mother said him leaving her was the best thing that ever happened to her b/c she remarried a great guy and that was 22 years ago...what are the odds?)

So anyhow, she was perfect, and the knowledge she gave me was empowering. To know I was choosing to stay M, not out of fear of financial disaster, but b/c I chose to stay M for at least awhile longer.

And when I finally decided to file for d, SHE talked me into filing for a sep instead, (Had to file something to protect assets due to h's sudden weird spending and to get thru to him) b/c she said "I still think you guys have a chance cuz you still love the guy and he sounds like he loves you....

Thank God. At the time, h was so crazy and believing everything his heroes said up there, he would have mortgaged our house to buy in to the practice up there and that would have ruined us, as it turns out. So while I protected assets and our children's future, I also drew a line. Hey, it did not hurt my sitch in the long run, made ME feel safer, etc and does not lead to a divorce, per se. Besides, seeing a L is not something your h ever has to know about if you don't file.

As I said, I found it empowering. And if its' not, if it IS terrifying b/c legally you might be screwed, better to know now. I do have concerns about the debt your h is running up as it will count as a "mutual" debt if you two are still married. Regardless of how separate the accounts are, check with a L in your state please. He is already affecting your credit score. If I've missed out on your finances or if you've seen a L you trust, then chuck out this post. I just thought I'd mention that seeing a L does not "cause" divorce, and seems like a really good idea in your sitch.

Sometimes it saves M's. And given his recent financial history and your med needs (is your ins from your h's work?) it might be crazy not to.

Hope you are doing well.
( j )

[Dawn of Hope]

25yrs (j), thank you so much for taking a significant chunk of your time to help me along, for all of your advice and counsel, and for padding the 2x4s. I appreciate all of the support I have received here; I think I also need a certain amount of accountability, so I particularly value your comments for that reason, and also because you are rebuilding your M. You have given me quite a lot to think about, and I will need to respond to the particulars when I have a bit more time. In the meantime, THANK YOU, and I hope you keep posting to me and helping me with those needed attitude adjustments!

Glam, thank you for checking on me and posting. You know I always value your thoughts on my sitch. How are you doing?

I did, after prayerful consideration, decide to go ahead and send H a text; all it said was "Happy birthday!" It made me a little nervous, contacting H after over 5 weeks of NC, but not worried about whether it was the right thing to do. I have peace about that aspect of it. It would be unusual for him not to respond to me contacting him (and it's not as though I've been harassing him or asking him for anything), but this whole sitch is so out of character that it's hard to tell what is "normal" for him any more. Regardless, I am not worked up about whether he will respond or not. When he moved out, he did say (of his own accord) that it was okay for me to contact him, and this is the first time I have done so since then...so I think even a MLC mind would have trouble construing my text as something negative.

Okay, enough about that. My mother left this morning, and is back home now, and I was going to go to church and a couple of other activities, but I had a headache and was very tired from being quite short on sleep for the last couple of days, so I just went back to bed. I still have the headache (which I think is from my erratic sleep schedule) but I would like to see what I can do to kick this bedtime problem to the curb. Working on that...

Will post more later (especially responses to 25yrs' comments and questions). For now, I need to start winding down so that I have a chance of seeing daylight tomorrow.

Peace,
Dawn

[25yearsmlc]

Dawn,

checking in to say ''hi" and see how you are today. Don't worry, you don't have to write a novel length post each time. I remind myself of that all the time. Just wondering how you are.
((( j )))

[AliSuddenly]

Hey Dawn, I meant to post yesterday too, but I'm glad to see you are doing so well and keeping up with your stuff, like running the caligraphy class - good for you!!

I thikn you did the right thing by sending him a birthday text, its not that big a deal and you were M for zillions of years, so its a compassionate, friendly thing to have done. Dont sweat it!

Al xxx

[Dawn of Hope]

Hi, 25 and Ali, thanks for posting to me! I really appreciate knowing that there are people out there who care about me enough to do that, even though we are only words on a screen to each other!

I am doing okay today, and I am happy to report that I went to bed a little earlier last night, and got up a little earlier today, so that is good! I decided to try something I haven't really done before, to see if it would help me with my sleep pattern issues. My new "rule" for myself is no reading and no computer after about 10:30 p.m. (I don't watch TV at all [that means NEVER], and rarely watch movies, so those aren't a concern in my case.) I know that those are the things I use to escape dealing with my own issues, and they serve as a procrastination crutch for me. They aren't bad in themselves, but anything done to excess becomes a problem, and these things qualify for me. So I am taking steps to limit them. Last night was the first time I tried this, and I found that I didn't quite know what to do with myself! That told me that I really did have a problem, so I will stick with this a while and see what shakes out of the experience.

Okay, gotta go make some phone calls before places close; will report more later.

Peace,
Dawn

[25yearsmlc]

Believe it or not,

we aren't just words on a screen. In a way, we've all been on a long crazy train ride and some cars fall off the cliff and we are all afraid that's what will happen to ours, and some make it fine across the bridge...and we bond in our common pain and fears.

For most of us, it is, or rivals the worst experience we've ever had. So, knowing you are not alone is a good good thing. And you aren't. There are also live divorce support groups in most cities, where you meet and get together for fun activities and some commiserating ("Crap! My first holiday post D", , etc and they'll understand you. )

I'd think that would be so great to be in physical proximity to those who "get it" and early on you'd have someone in touch. Plus it'll lead to Just to dust up your thoughts some more, I had one other question line. Gross to mention it...but ow?? Um, her age offers one advantage and that is if your h wanted kids. You said you were the main one who didn't want children and I don't know why but assume it's depression related. I'm totally guessing there. But do you ever think that given your h's MLC age range, and her age, and your resistance to it, that it might be an issue?

If so, what could you do? What would you be willing to do? Give birth? (Hey, I had my last one at 38 but my mom had me at 40 AND 3 more kids after that so it can happen, especially these days. OR Adopt? I mean if it IS an issue for him, after all this time sure it'd be nice to have known earlier. But would it have changed anything for you then? Now?

My sister's ex left her and she really fell apart, and did so badly. They had no kids, as each kept thinking they'd do it later. He left her without giving a reason (although I knew he had to have OW, given the alimony he agreed to, and frankly my siser had been smothering, and with no kids and no real job for years, I suspect he felt "she didn't bring anything to the table"...)

So they divorced and her head was spinning. All told only 6 months had passed. Then her h married OW 30 days after the divorce from my sister. She was floored that there was an OW at all, let alone one he was marrying in the shortest legally permitted time. 11 months later, they had a baby together and sent her an announcement...wtf??? ouch!

FWIW, your h does not show the signs of certainty with ow that my xbil did, so don't even go there in your head. STOP SIGN TIME.... I'm just asking about the baby issue for your h given your history on the topic and his age range for MLC, I'm wondering about a phase for him...?

okay enough for now. I am procrastinating big time...like you I have to get a sleep routine and I have a d11 so I wake up for at 7:30 so I'm gonna die if I keep this up. H is on the east coast again with his cancer mom, and he's been gone 6 weeks this time and I'm NOT sleeping enough! He comes back here the 9th and that will help.

Take care and don't freak out too much about the questions. I ask b/c I see a very articulate woman journalling and thinking and getting a little isolated...so I poke around seeing if we can help with some bigger 180's.

You're going to have to risk something to get thru this no matter what. Risk by getting way out of your comfort zone and being a "joiner" of groups (just two?) or teaching more classes or different ones, and or getting better pay or more work...etc.
AND OR risking by loving fully again. If you risk nothing, that's what you'll have. I know it's terrifying, but you are past the scariest parts and you made it thru.

So what are those GAL items? Best case scenario is a hobby/passion you love, or maybe one you totally don't know about yet! I'm doing a creative project just for the artisitic pleasure of it, and my coach said, "why not try to 'marry' it to something commercial, (easy to do if you don't care about profit margins...) assuming it doesn't warp your art"? I LOVE THAT IDEA!!

As for your h coming back soon, I did want to mention that it doesn't help to tell a lot of people about OW. I am not saying for ou to protect the lie. I'm saying Remember you want to keep the road home paved and smooth.

So the videos and OW things are best left unsaid to your family or close friends b/c it makes it harder for h's to come back. Your friends will not get it. Sometimes the less they know the better IF you want to restore the M. Don't make it harder than it already would be. As for his awareness of the pain he's caused, you cannot know what he feels. And you don't want guilt to guide him b/c it doesn't last as a marital foundation.

Remorse can lead to realizations of the truth and that's great. But again, I find that guilt/shame in people often comes out as anger or resentment. A Russian woman once said, that "when men feel guilt, they attack".

And if you don't think you'll be able to let go of the OW images, then you won't be able to be married. It's part of forgiving and takes time and meds and cognitive therapy. I don't know of any long term M that hasn't contained some serious forgiveness along the way. No offense, but if you can't forgive, you may as well move on now. I'm NOT making light of it. I'm just saying that couples who try to reconcile only to hang onto their pain and betrayal, waste so much time and end up divorced anyhow, or married and bitter, and I don't know which is worse.

You sound more evolved in this forgiveness thing and the value it has for you, than most. That's why I think there's hope with your sitch, along with your h's uncertainty, and the unlikelihood that this OW is his "soul mate"...

Well I'm so tired now that I'm nodding off and making less and less sense. Gotta go,
hugs!

(( j ))

[glamgirl]

How are you doing Dawn? Did your h respond to the birthday text?

I hope all is well!