OK, looks like I'm gonna be joining the gang down here since my latest in newcomers has definitely turned into SSM discussion.
More to come soon...
Mike
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
You have been doing so great. I think when you were "walking down the mountain," you might have realized that it was just a dip in the mountain and now you have to go back up again.
It's so difficult!
You will find a group of really great people here. There is some serious support.
If the mountain represents the huge block between us, I am still on my way down I think. Things have been going very well between us day to day. We no longer blame, argue, feel alone. We are very friendly and W is more trusting of my intentions when I hug her or touch her non-sexually.
To continue the analogy, a nice warm campfire would improve the trek tremendously, but right now I am just going to have to accept that there is no spark and no fuel to make one. *Brrr*
I must say I am feeling optimistic though, I never understood what was going on before and how I was making matters worse. More to come on that later tho, short on time right now.
SF
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Just wanted you to know that I found your new thread and will be following along. IF BF and I ever get around to working on our R I'll be working on our sex life since I am definitely LD and it was a major issue.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
Thanks much, I will be keeping an eye on your thread also. I think it may be good having someone who is LD to talk to. Perhaps it will give me some insight into my W. I am trying to learn not to take rejection so personally, but it still gets me a lot.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Let me know if you ever want to hear my details, happy to share. It's good for me too because I never realized how much my actions were hurting BF. He never let on until he dropped the bomb.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
Something is changing with us. The other night we had a very frank conversation about our SSM. I think it is the first time ever we have really discussed the subject. I think the DBing I am doing on our R is helping us in this department also.
She expressed regret that in all the years we have been together, we still have not learned how to improve ML. I told her that it is a symptom of me pursuing and her avoiding. Each time we ML, it was "lets get this over with". How on earth can you take the time to be better lovers with that kind of pressure?
She expressed anger that in the past I have gotten frustrated when something ruins the time we set aside to ML, specifically that I would get frustrated at D4 for not going to sleep until late. I told her that when you only get to ML once every month or two, something interfering with the one scheduled time to ML is a much bigger deal than it should be. I have a shorter fuse all round since I am very HD and my needs are not being met. Also, if you have followed my story you know that I am having problems with D4's bedtime since my MIL is letting her nap as late as she wants and as long as she wants during the day. D4 not having any kind of consistent bedtime is encroaching on time and energy that W and I really need for each other.
She talked about feeling used, and how ML was all about my physical release, then after I wouldn't spend any time holding her or anything. I replied that is because we always end up ML late at night when she has an early start, and she is always in a hurry to do it and go to bed. I thought I had her best interests at heart by getting her to bed asap. I told her I would love to spend time with her afterwards, but the way she acts like ML is a chore, it does not encourage me to do so since I feel like I am taking up her precious sleep time already. I have also encouraged the idea that I need the physical release in order to leave her alone, since in the past that is the only thing that would convince her to ML. I should have known this would only cause a bigger barrier, but it was a learned pattern based on past experience, and one I was not really consciously aware of until now. Now I can see how the patterns I learned have hurt us, and such manipulative strategies to convince her to ML are doing harm over the long term, even if they are working in the short term. Now I simply ask her and then drop the subject, putting the ball in her court, and making sure not to get my hopes up or feel resentful if she says no.
I tried to tell her how her rejecting me makes me feel. She got defensive so I just dropped the subject. What I had to say was not really offensive and I need to get the message across to her, but she wouldn't let me finish what I had to say so I let it go for another time. Without really listening to what I had to say, she said she knows and she feels guilty. I am going to let her read SSM to hear my side of the story, since telling her raises her defenses. I asked her to read the first two chapters a few weeks back and so far she hasn't picked it up.
She told me she does not feel comfortable discussing specifics. I told her that a book I read said that if you can't talk about your sex life openly, then it is unlikely it will be good, which she considered and then proceeded to tell me things she liked and disliked when we ML.
This was a big step for us and makes me feel optimistic. Afterward we actually ended up ML and she was more responsive than she has been since we got married. She couldn't understand why she was so into it, she thought maybe it was because we haven't done anything for a while. I allowed myself a smile of satisfaction inside, since it has been no longer than usual, but the thing that has changed since then is our R: being emotionally open to each other for the first time in ages, feeling connected, having not argued for almost two months, spending quality time, and communicating better then we ever have.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Welcome to the forum. I've looked through some of your previous posts. You've done incredibly well to pull yourself together mentally, emotionally and physically, and turn things around - I know the "do or die" attitude all that must have required only too well - and don't ever let that spirit die down. Its the difference between men that have fulfilled and connected lives and relationships and those that don't.
I don't get so much time to post here these days, but I've got a few pointers that may help with the SSM issue:
(1) You've done tremendous self-improvement - keep at it - keep "pushing your edge" in all the important areas of your life.
(2) You've read the NMMNG book, so you're aware of the dangers of the "covert contract" - so many men do this in their marriages - it can only end in resentment or worse. At the risk of stating the obvious - DO NOT EVER fall back into the covert contract way of thinking - as in "I've made all these improvements to myself, yet I'm still not getting as much sex as I want, its a waste of time, I'm gonna stop, life's pointless etc etc". As soon as that kind of thought enters your mind - boot it right out again. You've probably realised by now that your mind is the engine of your entire life - thoughts are its fuel - don't sabotage your recovery by clogging up your engine with limiting thoughts again.
(3) Sexual desire is obviously a powerful urge within most men - but it is simply one manifestation of our unique life force/ energy/ capacity to create (think tall buildings and dams). Its a gift, not a compulsion. Remind yourself often that when you want to have sex with your wife - its you choosing to give her something - if she rejects you, its more her loss than yours and in the words of David Deida "makes no difference to who you already are". In other words sexual desire is a want not a need, its not something that you should ever as a man feel anxious or needy about. That is the kind of confident (not arrogant) vibe you want to put out. And its true - if (being pessimistic for a second) - your wife is simply unwilling to own her sexuality and work with you in having a mutually satisfying sex life, you are now quite able to leave her and find another woman who is. Yes, you have a child, yes, its an extreme measure, but it is a choice you undoubtedly have. So do not ever think of yourself as being "trapped" in an SSM. Its simply not the case - this point is all the more important given that your wife was all for leaving at one point - that doesn't mean she wasn't at fault in her own ways, or that she now has the upper hand.
(4) I've learnt a lot on this forum very recently about how women think about sex, how they need to be mentally seduced and opened up prior to the physical act itself. You're probably starting to work these things out already e.g. your latest post. If you have time, I recommend you look through the threads of Bagheera (male) and DanceQueen (female) who have both given me a lot of useful knowledge on this point - too much to condense here!
(5) I am very pleased to see you refer in your latest post to "optimism" - see my own signature. This is such a crucial ingredient on so many levels. Its necessary to do well in life generally, giving us the impetus to march into and through our fears. You already know this. But its also the one thing notable for its absence in probably every SSM - couples who for many different reasons are trapped in a cycle of rejection, resentment and despondency that it can ever be any different - its difficult where this is such a history for either partner to be "optimistic"; it requires tremendous mental and emotional strength (I know this). But it can be done and is worth it. Because it is an attribute that women value very highly in men. Optimism is effectively a form of courage - its looking at the future and saying "I will cope; I will be happy; I will be passionate." Women love that in men; it really does turn them on. Just don't base your optimism on the relationship - let it spring from your inner resources and circulate within the marriage.
That's enough from me - keep up the good work.
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
Heading home from work, but wanted to say thanks real quick for that awesome post S&A. It gave me a lot of food for thought, and I appreciate it.
Gonna mull it over and maybe post back my thoughts on it at a later time.
SF
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Have you read the Five Language of Love, I know that he helped me to see how other people give love and want to receive it. I am not such a touchy feeling person--my ex was. I realize that I needed to show him love through physical touch. Perhaps your wife is need to feel love in another way other than physical touch--just a thought.
