I dont know if that is the only problem, I know that played a major role to what happened.
We'll see. I am in a good mood today. Funny, I dont have a reason to be but I am. Well, I guess I am losing it, it was bound to happen at a point. I am only human. xxx K
I don't know if he can get through all of those things or not. Some of your good qualities scare him, I think. You are passitionate, in everything you do I think. I think that intimidates him. You speak your mind, not because you have to "win" but because you want to be heard. And that scares him. You are independent enough to take care of yourself, as everyone should be. And that confuses him. You are willing even now to forgive him. And that confuses him, and scares him!
You have a plan. Follow through the best you can, and see where it leads. I know how much better it feels to know that you did everything you could. But at some point, it really does take two.
Hmm...is it about K ?.. I'm not sure that people are a certain way, or behave or act day in day out a certain way purely becuase of the person near to them in their life.
If he's being that way, thats because that is who he is, thats how he chooses to behave and thats how he expresses himself, thats the extent of his emotional maturity or just his personality? I dont think he is that way because K "scares him", or he is intimidated, or confused. I think he is just being himself, largely and sounds like, as Bill said, he haasnt really changed much over hte past few years, this experience hasnt altered him, or his behaviour, not noticeably anyway.
He hasnt had to deal with the shock of a dreadful loss..he hasnt had to deal with grief, he hasnt had to face abandonement issues, or feeling rejected or alone or hurt.. or any of the huge, difficult, painful things us LBS have had to. Yes, he has had to deal with guilt, but seeing as he is doing little to appease yuo, I dont think he has taken his feelings of guilt and remorse very seriously so far.
Maybe we modify our behaviour somewaht to accomodate our spouse.. but for example.. he shouts and gets angry because that is how he has always expressed himself when he gets frustrated... he is thoughtless with gifts becuase he always was, he doesnt spend much time with you, or the family, becuase he was like that before he left, thats his 'modus operandi' not becuase he is scared, confused and intimidated by you. In a way that absolves him of the responsibility of his actions doesnt it, and places some of the blame at your door. But he has a choice here. He chose to leave. He chose to come back. He chose to shout at you even this weekend and not do much in the way to repair the damage done by his leaving.
Sorry if what I say isnt in line with the other helpful peeps here!
I posted something similar to this on Yoyowife's thread. I was thinking about her sitch and yours when I wrote it.
I've been thinking about these WAS's and how they go off to do their thing and whatever they want, and they assume that everyone around them is standing still. They can go off and have the affair, and when they are ready to come back, everything will be the same. No consequences.
But you are there with a surprise. You aren't the weak woman who he left. You are changed. And the kids are changed. And no one trusts him. He comes back and you aren't jumping for joy.
Now you rule the roost, not him. He just doesn't get it. He needs to do more than just show up. He needs to change. Your H is extremely resistant to change. Can the counselors get him to change? We'll see. But if he can't do it for 7 weeks, he can't do it for the rest of his life. And you are young. This is no time to pack in your hopes for a happy life. The ball is in his court. He can hit it, or he can let it go by. But it is up to him, not you, to take your hands and look deep into your eyes, and say "I will do what it takes to keep you, because you are valuable to me."
I'm finally back and caught up w/you (as for my own thread, that will be a few more days still, I'm afraid).
Ok, what do I see? I see your IC as being excellent for you, even if it does mean, as you said "you'll end up pulling farther away from H." That is ok in the end b/c the point of your IC is for you. Now if H can get his own IC you may be on to something.
It is very sad that he doesn't get it, but as was mentioned before by Bill and Jeff, I think, he may not get it in time for you. You are so far ahead of him that you may grow tired of waiting. If so, that is ok. The key right now is for you to take care of YOU first, then the M. Everything will flow off of a healthy and happy Maria.
I'm pleased w/the suggestions from your C's on taking care of yourself, ending expectations, and stopping the negative. It is good you've been given a deadline as that has seemed to relax you very much. Remember what Bill said and don't finish the race before it is won, but continue to use us here to vent. So far, I'm impressed w/how you are doing.
I also like your IC's suggestion to stop judging yourself. This can only help you move forward and be happier, regardless of what H does or doesn't do.
My thoughts are w/you as always and I'll be trying my best to send good signals to H that he'll be able to comprehend. I'll try to dummy it down a bit or use pre-historic uttural grunts and basic gestures. Maybe he could figure those out.
You are doing well. Keep going along the course and doing the exercises. The proper outcome will be clear at the end of the 8-week road, my friend.
Hey Ali! I think that in this case, it is about Kalni. I think that one of his problems is that it is about Kalni. He acts or doesn't act not because of what he wants, but based on how he thinks she will react, or what he thinks she wants. Despite his physical detachment, I think that he is emotionally fused with her (which is not a good thing!) At the beginning of this adventure I think that she was also fused with him, now she is not. When you read "Passionate Marriage" you'll see what I'm referring to.
Hey Jeff! Yeah, I agree, I guess there could be shades of each hey, as you say he acts out of assumptions and that could be a factor. But from what K says, he doesnt seem to be acting any different than he did in the years before the S ?! yes.. I am still ploughing through Passionate M.. I thikn I need to speed up a bit ! I got as far as the differentiation bit..
My general take on all this is Kalni.. has grown too much. She left her H behind.. and he is now.. not stepping up.
He needs to act.. in order for her to "see" it.
I agree to a point. Yes.. Sir Mixalot.. does need to step up.
But.. I will assure you.. he is not seeing anything that is prompting him to step up. Kalni and Sir Mixalot.. are stuck in the cycle that lead them "here" (DB.com). I have no doubt that Kalni will admit.. that were they are today.. seems very familiar.
Truth be told.. I am 100% on Kalni's side. Where she leads.. I will follow.. and will support her 110%.
As of yet.. she has not told me to go away. She has not "given up".
I feel I need to say to Sara.. this is not an attack from me. Me and you just disagree.. on a few things. All of this.. is food for thought. I am not trying to defeat your point of view.
The worst that could happen.. is Kalni's head goes a spinning.
Sometimes.. that can be a good thing.
"Shortcoming" I meant him giving up, and taking the closest exit out of our M..."
There was a lot of "Emotion" that went into him leaving. You know this. I still don't understand all of it.. but trust me.. he did not do that "lightly". Yes he left. But for him.. it was the only logical thing to do. It was the only out. People get "here" (OP Leaving) in many ways. They get to the point where leaving.. in their mind.. is better than "working on it". Honestly it is a "true giving" measure on some levels.
"Selfish?"
To a point. Me and you have touched on this some.. and disagreed. I like the selfish you when you are leading. I do not like selfish you.. when you are demanding. There is a difference.
"Dont you see I was trying to limit myself in so many ways to accommodate his denial to follow?"
Yes. Why would you think I did not see it? You know me better than this.
"I lowered myself so that he could reach me?"
Yes.. Yes you did. But if you really look at it.. He did not "see" it that way. So.. what you did.. does not work. That I am sure of. It is time to rethink.. or back away.
"I am not perfect, I am not special, but I may still be scary to him because of the way he is, not the way I am..."
I have a question.. for you.. and only you.
How many times.. in my postings here (Db.com).. do you think I have felt the exact same way you are right there?
Do I need to list my offense's?
How many people think I am "scary".
"Hostile? I am not hostile."
Not even a little bit?
"I am patient lately, thinking before I speak, thinking of ways to act in a positive way for our M."
Get used to this.
"Get angry."
This will not help. From what I know about Sir Mixalot.. he will run and hide from this. He can see your anger.. long before you can.
"And he is not likely to step up to the plate and treat you any better unless you demand it of him."
Hmm.. I might come back to that.
"Regarding your husband however, it is clear that you must reduce or at least temper your expectations."
"I see a woman who has used the crisis her husband perpetuated to look deeply inside, grow, and change. In the process I believe you reached that magical point where you took off the rose colored glasses that so many of us had on during our marriages."
"Your husband, as is typical with walkaways, has done nothing on himself it seems."
"Let's not forget along the way to do the right thing for you as well."
"Your husband grossly under performs here."
This is where me and Bill.. step out of "timing".
"He makes me question his ability to reach for a deeper, more meaningful relationship. I've come to believe that he wants to come home, that he wants to restore your marriage (though I still do not know for what reason - and that is a bit sad). But it seems as though every tiny little bit of opening up and expressing his love must be dragged out of him."
He is walking back with everything he left with. Of course you will have to drag it out. That is what got them "here".
"All I can say is that if he has always been this closed, it is quite possible he is finding this VERY difficult. Remember, he is very much the man he was when he walked out."
See.. even Bill agrees.
"But Forrest is right I think when he says that if you do not change your approach here, these next seven weeks will be agonizingly long"
I hate.. being right.. really I do. I want you.. to be right!
"Now you must allow yourself to navigate a bit, AND have compassion on this man who is clearly lost."
This.. right here.. is the key. I am handing it to you. You do with it what you can.
"But Forrest, you do sound like you excuse my H and expect me to forget and act as if too much too often. That's why I said you ask for too much."
I am not excusing anything. There is no excuse for what he has done. In that.. you move on. I have never asked you to "act as if" too much. You chose this.. you "Worked".. and you ask me to keep supporting you. You have the chance.. that many people here.. dream of. I carry you around with each post I make.. why would you not expect me to "hammer" on you? Come on Sunshine. Show me you get all this stuff. You are smart.. you can do it.
"I've been thinking about these WAS's and how they go off to do their thing and whatever they want, and they assume that everyone around them is standing still. They can go off and have the affair, and when they are ready to come back, everything will be the same. No consequences."
I will assure you that no WAS.. ever expected to come come back with..
No consequences.
I am gonna leave it at that.. I don't want to offend.. or stir up the DQ.
Kalni...
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Thank you friends. Sometimes I wish we could all sit down, in person, and have a general discussion about life and Rs, not mine in specific, just life and what we have learnt each of us ... It would be very stimulating, food for thought as FG says. It still is for me when I read your posts...
I am not agonizing at the moment. I said I am in a better mood yesterday, woke up in a much better one today. I am making a rules plan with my kids these days, following a suggestion by the C, which I find very interesting. Each one of us sets rules for himself that are for the best. We get little stars when rules are followed and lose stars when we fail to follow the rules or do what we are supposed to, with delay.
I am excited because the rules I am setting myself, will make my motherly confidence rise and I need that at the moment. I feel I am not good enough for the kids. So my rules will be to spend the time i ahve since I get home until they go tro bed only with them, quality time (unless they dont want to), stay away from the PC, get out more with them, wake up earlier in the morning and get myself ready before they wake up so there is no stress getting ready at the same time, eat breakfast in the morning together, cook different tastes until we finally conclude to a menu everybody likes, stop yelling. After what I have been learning, form my journey and Hs I feel I need to encourage my kids to become the best they can.
I was very good with them during the summer but after H said he wants back, I... collapsed in many ways. At work I am doing better, now I need to concetrate on my kids and parents a bit.
I think you all are right about H in some extend. It is HIM more than it is me. The reaosn I say that it's because I've watched him act this way with all the people he loves, parents, sisters, friends. It's like he was born tired, no thirst for life, no motivation for nearly anything (but work and even there his career development has been extremely slow in comparison to other's), no passion. He has NO interests. For a 38 year old man, do you think that is normal? I dont. BUT I am not judging him. I dont have to like it though, do I?
I am optimistic. About my life in general. Money sucks, I've gained weight, work is boring, a divorced woman with kids here is not popular at all as far as dating is concerned BUT, I will be fine either way, I am special, no?
I dont know if I can lead the way Bill and FG say, or if I can demand the way Sara suggests, I do struggle to be compassionate with him and some times I feel that coming back to me but others, I cant relate to him at all.
I think what it will come down to will be my P....nce and his ability to move a bit faster. I am not hoping to feel in love in 8 weeks, I hope I will start to feel somehow connected to him, I am not hoping he will be Mr Different because he will not be, but I would like to feel comfortable enough to set a date he could move back in the house again or decide this isnt what I want. Because this cant go like this forever...
He called and said he read the email. He said he understands everything I wrote and is not mad or anything at all. I am glad. I tried to show him that now there is another level of thinking that I am dealing with and he needs to deal with too. We'll see.
My gesture for today I dont know yet. Cant think of anything. But I will.
I see you trying to be more realistic. You still seem to have major WAW symptoms - judging, angry, selfish and finger pointing (sorry Sara, I too did Retrovaille). But you are still very special so you can get beyond all the DQ BS. Be more +, think R, stop trying to control H and thinking and threatening D. Put on your oxygen mask and get to work. Tune in some more to station code FG.
