Separated and moving forward

[Kalni]

I love "you complete me" the same way I love "you had me at hello"...

Maybe I am more romantic than I thought I were, but the way I see it, I can be one (always will be), strong, happy, etc etc, but finding that special one to share all my wonderful (and not so wonderful) qualities takes me and my life to another lever of happiness.
We have a song in greek, it says "life not shared, is life wasted", and although I may not necessarily agree with "wasted", I believe that "shared" is what should be.

SMW once quoted something from a movie I dont recall which one, it was something like "being witnesses to each other's life" which I really liked.

And Carlos, feeling for someone else, in a way, means you are are ready for it. If I told you so 6 months ago or in the middle of the pain, you would be laughing at me, no?

Just take it slow and make sure it is not "a way out"...
K

[healthydad]

Hi Coach -
It is amazing...and healthy...and I think these things that I have learned through so much pain these last few months will certainly help me throughout the rest of my life.

It still troubles me to think that my family is breaking up - well, it's already broken, that happened even before she moved out in November...but I can see now that I had a lot of things to work through on my own - and I don't think that I could have had we stayed together. B will always be an amazing person - and I will always wish for her happiness - and that she might come to learn more about what it is that pains her and keeps her from feeling more fulfilled on her own.

-Carlos.

[healthydad]

Hi Kalni,
I'm a romantic myself...and I see where you're coming from...perhaps the difference in how we receive those words is just in how we assume they are spoken...For me, "you complete me" reminds me of when B would say that we were "soul mates" - though I felt cold-hearted, I would say that I didn't think such a thing existed - since when she would talk about being "soul mates" she always seemed to mean that we had to give up ourselves in order to be together...We weren't "soul mates" in the sense of sharing - we were, to her, "soul mates" in the sense of having our lives too much entangled in one another's and that troubled me.

Sharing my life with someone I love is what I want - it's what I wanted with B - it's what I had tried to offer her - and when the bomb dropped, I tried to learn to a new way to share my life with her based on all the things she would tell me were wrong with me/us...Now, months later, I see that there really wasn't anything I could do to "convince" her to want to be with me - or to change her mind...and that I could only work at improving myself - and once I started working on those improvements, and accepted them as something I would have to work on for the rest of my life - I saw that sharing my life with someone in this way - without wanting my partner to fill any voids for me - was very different - since if I felt more whole I could give with a real sense of unconditional love...I had never understood the idea of unconditional love before.

Kalni, not only 6 months ago, but even just two weeks ago I would have thought you were crazy if you had brought up the idea of having feelings for someone else. I wasn't looking for it - wasn't thinking about it - wasn't even aware that I could...but they kind of grew on their own...and so now I'm just being as careful as possible - monitoring myself and my emotions - and asking myself often if I am allowing myself to feel too much too quickly - or if I am drawn to a "way out." I don't want anyone to be hurt because of the pain I have already been through...

-Carlos.

[25yearsmlc]

Appreciate your candor Carlos, and your insights V V. In some ways your words frighten me since they touch on some questions that may always remain...have we made the right choice? What if we had taken the other path? What if?

Sort of related...I saw something about a couple who div and had kids. They decided to actually have a divorce ritual with their family and closest folks to announce the end of their m, and the beginning of living separately always respecting the fact that the other was the parent of their children; to put their children first, their own truth second and to forgive and stop all the blame.

It sounded pretty weird, but maybe isn't so crazy after all. I wonder about things like that. Parting with some type of closure, or at least...a spoken peace. If nothing else, for the kids.

( j )

[healthydad]

Hi J,
It seems like you've been on quite a journey with your M...and I'm impressed to see that you have Piecing as your final item in your profile.

Tough questions do remain - and sometimes, when I look at my baby boy, my heart just aches at the thought that his mother and I no longer love one another. I look at him, and I apologize to him that the mistakes of adults should impact him so - and at such a young age - and I do still cry over how this divorce will impact his life as he gets older.

That said, I also look toward my older son - and see what a remarkable child he is - and I marvel at how close we are - the things we talk about - the things he shares with me. My S11 often tells me that he can talk about things with me that he can't talk about with anyone else - and that he feels safer with me than with anyone else. Hearing him say those things reminds me that I can and will be a good father to my baby boy as he grows older - because my relationships with their mothers (wow...what an odd thing to have to write) does not impact my relationships with my children.

I don't say it often - perhaps I haven't said it very explicitly here - but B was emotionally abusive of my S11. She had been for years - and her attitude was just one of the many things that would often lead to arguments for us. I would stand up for my son, she would accuse me of not respecting her, and my son would get withdrawn and sad...Since B has moved out, my S11 had opened up a lot to me about how she treated him - in fact, recently, when I asked him how he would feel if I ever met someone else he responded by telling me that I shouldn't worry about him, because he would be fine - that he thought I should worry about his baby brother - because he didn't want his brother to have to deal with someone that treated him the way B had treated my S11. Just writing that is making my eyes water and my heart hurt...

(I knew, I knew she treated you badly...and I am so sorry that I did not do more to shield you from her...Forgive me, son)

Those words go out to my son - and I have spoken them to him as well - and I wrote them here because it is something I have to remember about B...even when I loved her, when I saw her as the most beautiful woman I had ever known, and marveled at her many gifts...I knew that she treated my son badly...and it took me too long to ask her to move out...and now, when I think about her journey, I want her to improve, I want her to find happiness, I want her to have a fulfilling life - but I do not want her around my older son anymore. Of course, she made him happy at times, she made incredible Halloween costumes for him and she loved him as best she could...but she never thought there was anything wrong with how she treated him - in fact, before she moved out she told me that I had an unnatural love for my son and that my love for him isn't normal because I put him above her. I can't have that person back in my life anymore. I forgive her. But I know that she is unhealthy for me - and, worse, unhealthy for my older son.

If she weren't behaving as she does now, if we had an amicable, respectful understanding that we are not right for one another...then, yes, I would suggest a closure ceremony. As it is, there is nothing that makes me want to connect with her - even for a sense of closure.

-Carlos.

[25yearsmlc]

HD,

wow...nice post. If I were ever to date again, for whatever reason, and assuming I'd healed from h's death or a divorce, etc etc...here is what I HOPE would be my 'dating factors'

I would not introduce new man into my kids' lives until I was 75% sure it was worth introducing and that would mean I actually thought I could love the man and that he could be a fixture in my life and theirs. (A MC advised this so I can't say it all comes from my brilliance, but it resonated with me. He said a lot of parents
"over introduce" their kids to too many prospective partners and it's hard b/c they get attached and lost again, or hurt, or worse, learn to form crappy R's and trust no one long term.)

THEN I'd introduce them easing them into the R"s slowly, on occasions and with lots of alone time with the kids and me, and if my children had any, ANY valid reasons for not connecting with the guy, he'd be out the door. I say "valid" meaning if I knew they weren't objecting to the new guy to manipulate a reconciliation, for instance. Otherwise I think kids are pretty intuitive and want to see US happy.

IOW, they'd have some veto power. For me, [b]one reason to have a man in MY life is because I think it's important to have a man in my KID'S lives....so, if he can't relate to my kids lovingly, he is missing a key ingredient and that's it. I never understood a woman I know who praised her 2nd H a lot but then added, "except he hates my kids..." and I flipped. WTH??? "Hates your kids"??? How is he so great then??? Oh, he makes a lot of money and is good to HER...and I said "being good to a woman with children partly means being good to the children..." and she seemed chagrined. Yes, they divorced.

Anyhow, I was very moved by your post. Protect your boys. Where is your s11's mom now? Sorry I don't know your whole sitch.

(( j ))

[VeronicaV]

Hi Carlos,

That was a beautiful post that you wrote. It read like an open letter to your boys and it showed so much love and warmth for them.

25yearsmlc has it right about your boys and a new woman in your life, but I know, from reading everything here, that you already know all of that.

I think people create a false dichotomy when dating again after divorce when children are involved. They start from the premise that they have to choose either their or their children's desires. I suggest that is the wrong premise and there really is no dichotomy at all because there is no "choice it is not about choice. Your children are a part of you and any woman who loves you will love them or she will not really love you. That said, there are practical realities and, as 25yearsmlc points out, she should probably not even be introduced until you are sure enough (whatever percentage works for you) she is someone with whom you want to build something.

I think your kids will be a great guide for you on this path. They will sense if you are loved in a way they want for you. All of you will feel that. It is for this reason I say there is no "choice" to be made.

Wow, that's a lot of advice from a woman without children, but I am someone who will be a part of someone else's life one day and this is my approach. It really is about loving the whole man and if that man has children, then his children are a part of that whole man.

V.

[25yearsmlc]

vv,

great point about the kid's ability to guide you as to who the right one is. The 75% number I got from the c, as I said. I think he meant that we should be far enough on the path to love that we don't "over introduce", yet not so close that by the time the kids meet the new person, it's a done deal. Make sense? I have met people who wait until it's a fait accompli to introduce and it makes me wonder why. If I were the new "step mom to be" I would want to meet the kids ahead of time anyhow, for ME as well as for them.

Anyhow, when I see my s22 dating, I carefully watch the way the young woman looks at him. And he, at her. If a gf of his, looks at him the way I'd want a woman to look at my son, when she really really gets him and really really loves him, then she gets my thumbs up. FWIW (and that ain' t always much, fyi!!).

You know what I mean. The kids will see something we might miss. Hm, Yeah, I say they get full voting rights.

((( j )))

[healthydad]

Veronica and J:
You're both giving me much to think about - and also making me comfortable in that I am thinking along the same lines as you. I've never been one to date a lot of people - so I wasn't worried about bringing too many woman by for the boys to meet. I wasn't even expecting to think about the possibility of introducing them to someone for a long, long time (years in fact) - so I'm still bewildered by the rush of emotions that have been going through me of late.

I like the idea of my kids having full voting rights - and also believe that it's important to take introductions slowly. A lot has changed over the last year in my life and in the lives of my children - so I will have to be very, very patient about introducing someone new to them. She knows this - and has been very understanding - gracious and kind. And she also agrees that it's important to be cautious right now...since I'm coming out of something extremely painful and life-altering - and will need time to heal.

As horrible as the pain has been for me over these last nine months...I am emerging with a kind of unanticipated optimism...

-Carlos.

[VeronicaV]

Carlos,

I am so glad you have a handle on things and this woman sounds like a peach.

V.