Divorced, but 'still hopeful' to reconcile.

[still hopeful]

Thank you so much for the new glasses that I needed to remember to wear to see my reality from the proper perspective. It is true that whenever I do bail XW out, I do get the added benefit of being there for my D8 when she needs me. My 'stuff' is not my children's stuff. As our mediator said in the beginning, the children are the innocents in the situation of our crumbling M. Thank you for taking the time to chime in.

[still hopeful]

Thank you so much for taking the time to post to me. I appreciate all who take time out of their busy lives to help those they only know through their crises on the board.

...but if you portray yourself to your x anything close to how you come across in your posts you r coming off way too needy. Listen to Frank and chill man! You can tell yourself that your detaching tell yr blue in the face, but at some point u have to walk the walk.

Perhaps you can help me with SEEING my neediness, because I think that that is my problem, I'm not even seeing my displays of neediness so I am not aware of what the heck I am DOING wrong. Stereotypical "forest for the trees" syndrome. As far as my friend frank_D goes, he has been great in telling me what I need to do, so I do know. My problem has been just doing it. I agree with him that my problem all along has been that I haven't let go because I don't want to for fear of losing her for good. Yes, my has denial has run that deep this long. I've already lost her; we're divorced. The time came along time ago to JUST DO IT! That time is still here. Time to walk the walk for real.

I can tell u r a nice guy. Yr ex knows u r too. Now show her yr a strong, confident SOB that doesnt need her in his life. Want is a different story, but not need. Codependence Bad. Self-confidence Good ;-)

Being nice got me divorced, so clearly nice is the wrong thing to be showing my XW. In all other aspects of my life, I'm a strong, confident SOB, but the only aspect of my life that will positively affect my sitch is to be that same strong, confident SOB with XW instead of the wuss that I've allowed myself to morph into during our R. I need to take a long, hard look at my behavior showing want vs. need to XW. Clearly, what I post says that what I show is need, instead of want to my XW. Again, my R with XW is the only place that I'm co-dependent. Sort of good, except that I'm here because of my R with my XW. Clearly I need to show confidence in ALL aspects of my life, particularly with XW.

She doesnt want to chase u because yr always there. Bob n weave brotha. Yr too available. Yr post r filled w what yr going to do if she comes bck. Comes bck? Yr D'd. She's gone. At least the old one is. The aliens came and grabbed her. Along w mine. Her harddrive was formated. The files r gone. Now that u got tht settled. Move on and rebuild.

I have always been available. Always. By doing THAT all this time, I really didn't think I was making matters worse in my sitch, but hindsight.... Thank you for pointing out that my focus is on something that I have NO control over. We ARE divorced. She is gone. The aliens have grabbed her and I KNOW this. I am working on settling this emotionally. It's not an intellectual problem, it's emotional denial that I'm struggling with. And I am on the 'disengaging and detaching'(D&D) path, which is the correct path for me to be on but, it's foreign as hell; thoroughly unfamiliar. I am afraid that even if I 'do' everything 'right', that you are correct and it's all for naught. However, you and others have posted to me that my work on myself during my sitch is my gift to ME, and I also doubt that I would have found my way to be doing what I continue to do for myself had I not found myself in my sitch. Good coming from bad. It's a strange concept, but definitely true for me here. Frank_D puts it this way, "Just smile and wave."

Dont tell her u've changed show her. Show her u dont need her to survive.

Again, I'm on the D&D path, and working on learning as quickly as I'm able to show XW my true strong and confident personality that I show everyone else in my life, as time marches on. I will focus on patting myself on the back for my small victories along the way instead of beating myself up for NOT doing everything perfectly now. As frank_D counseled me, this is a new behavior pattern; I'm growing.

I've reached a point where I accept that and am almost happy about it.

I look forward to reaching that point. I want to be happy.

I would have still been living in the matrix not having a clue what I really needed or wanted. Unfortunately, sometimes it just wasnt meant to b. In my sitch, I married a closet narcissist....

We must have been next door neighbors in the Matrix. I was lost and finding myself has been a wondrous journey of self discover. I certainly wasn't interested in improving myself before this experience. I do wonder if we just weren't meant to be. Looking back, my XW wasn't hiding the fact that she is narcissistic. She always showed me who she was. I started morphing into the wuss very early on in our R. My bad. 'Stupid donkey.' It was her narcissism that really drove me batty, and sadly, I don't even think she sees that a problem exists. It works for her.

You cant force someone to love u no matter how hard u try. Believe me.

That much I know. The most confusing part in my situation is XW confessing TO ME that she loves me and how sad she is that we didn't work out. She allows me closer and then pulls away playing the blame game like the aftermath of our Tahoe trip. All that tells me that although we are divorced, she hasn't completely closed the door to reconciliation. But I know that I have to suppress my emotions and thoughts about that and plan my life as though we will NEVER reconcile. Sad, but that's where the safe money is bet.

My advice if any from what I learned is to just let go. Dont talk abt letting go. JUST DO IT!!!

Sound familiar. Part of letting go will come from forgiveness. Forgive yourself. Forgive them for giving up. Forgive them for they dont know what they r doing. The best definition of forgiviness that I found that helped me let go was realizing u cant change the past.

Yes, of course, it does. Staying on the D&D path...stumbling, bumbling, fumbling...as I make my way. Yes, I need to do my forgiveness work in earnest. That and stop keeping score. And yes, reminding myself that I can't undo past mistakes is a daily task.

Forgiving her was really hard. Why should I forgive her? How could I after she walked away from her marriage, commitment, family??? You know why? Because u need to forgive for yourself so u can let go. I read somewhere on here a great quote about resentment "resentment is like u drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die".

Ever time I got angry at the thought of what she did, where I was at now. What had happened I was just poisoning myself. Poisoning who I was. Classic projection my friend. Self projection! LOL!

I love the quote about resentment, especially. Never heard it put that way, but how appropriate. This is very similar to- Forgiveness is a gift to yourself.

She thought I was controlling by wanted to talk about our R or whatever. yet I, YOU are being controlled by them, well really by ourselves by not letting go. Anyway, u know what u have to do. For your kids, for yourself, for any hope of a future w yr ex. Drop the rope. Throw it as far as u can. It's just leads to despair and pain of the past.

One area that I have been lucky in is that I haven't tried to have any R discussions. She has initiated all of them. My XW's main thing about me has been that she's maintained that I was abusive. Now after my snowboarding accident damn near killed me 6 years ago and my brain has healed, I realize that my behavior was not as she would have me believe that it was with any regularity. Sure, I'd get pissed off, but I was generally very muted in my reactions because I was deep into my 'wuss' persona. So...I believe that her 'perception' of me is simply exaggerated evidence to justify her giving up on her M when she did. I don't know, but I do know this; I can't read her mind and I don't have her perceptions of reality from her point of view.

Embrace today. Be happy to be alive! Be happy that u have begun a journey that less then 10% of the ppl on this planet could even comprehend. Forget about climbing to the top of Mt Everest. Try climbing up the mountain of your soul. Who am I really? What do I need and want? Why am I so co-dependent? Why to I fall for the illusion of having control? Why? Why?

Figure those things out and u might not even want yr ex in yr life anymore. U might determine u deserve more. Who knows. I wish u the best on yr journey my friend. JUST DO IT!!! I will keep on following yr story. You have gained a lot of wisdom on yr journey. Keep it up!

I am grateful to be alive. I am grateful for all of the wonderful gifts that God has bestowed upon me, particularly allowing me to get off that mountain and recover from my coma. I have been working on strengthening my faith. I continue to read a lot of information about personal growth and self improvement. Since my accident, I have changed my personality a great deal, as I was not happy with many aspects of how I dealt with people. I am really finding out who I was before I wuss-ified myself in my R, and you know what, I like myself, and since I do like me I'll continue improving me.

Those are all great questions. What do I need and want? Why co-dependent? Why try to control? I will certainly grapple with them in the coming weeks. Frank_D told me ages ago, that if I continue working on myself and XW doesn't, I may find that I've outgrown her. I realize that that is a real possibility. I do deserve more from a partner than XW is able to give me right now. I know that we would not work right now, but she may see that her personality and behavioral tendencies are problematic for her and with that, she may choose to work on changing those personal problems or she may not. I know that I must emotionally divorce my 'old' XW and let go. As frank_D (yes again) said to me, I am being a real ****, by not giving her the D that she pursued and attained because I haven't let go and allowed both of us to be free and grow. I'm working on it. I am staying on that D&D path even though I am traveling blind, but I'll keep making progress as I feel my way from where I am to where I intend to be.

BTW, reading your post was very comforting in finding out that I am conveying my sitch and my actions clearly, even though I sometimes make mistakes along the way. I will, JUST DO IT! for my own sanity and well-being.

[mlawd1]

Just wanted to say thanks again for responding to my thread. I will keep a check on yours too and if I can offer any advice I will. If nothing else tell you what I did wrong.

One thing I just read and it really struck me. You said you were such a strong SOB in every other aspect in your life. I am too, and it disgusts me to be so weak when it comes to my ex. If any other person on this planet had treated me this way, I would have told them to kiss my ass a long time ago. But here I am hanging on every word she says and looking foolish.

[still hopeful]

Everyone and anyone who reads my thread, please, please remind me that I have to disengage and detach NOW. JUST DO IT! RIGHT NOW!

I must stop listening to the crazy-making that is my 'old' XW's life. I am working on emotionally divorcing the 'old' XW, and I'm finding it really difficult. I'm struggling to forgive myself for being so incredibly blind with 'love', and it's the residual feelings of that blindness that make my struggle so difficult for me still today. 'Old' XW isn't capable of being a partner now, and looking back, she really wasn't ever a partner at any point. She is so lost. Kidnapped by the aliens and it is clear that right now she is home; queen of the alien colony, Narcissistic-ville.

I am really saddened as I work through this emotional muck, coming to this realization of today. Wondering how I allowed myself to become a shell of my former self in her shadow. I know that I taught her how to treat me because I kept coming back for more, no matter how she behaved. I was negatively reinforcing her sh!tty treatment of me. It's her fault for being jerky. It's my fault for tolerating it and losing myself in the process of morphing into a useless wuss-boy. Ugh. I am so disgusted with myself, when I look back. F***, f***, f***...! Why was I such a wuss for her then and why is it so f****** difficult to change those horrible behavior patterns? Yes, I'm a little pissed right now, but at me, not 'Old' XW. I am working on figuring out exactly WHAT I was getting of our R as it was. I know what 'old' XW was getting. It's my own 'fog' around this that makes it very hazy and difficult to see in any real sense what I was getting. So sad. Lost time.

Well, that was a good vent session. I needed it after failing again in my efforts to disengage; my failure to walk away from her mid-alien story. I'll do better next time. I am tired of feeling sh!tty about myself after our interactions. "Just smile and wave," ay frank_D? Well, I've bound my Nerf bat wounds in Nerf bandages and I'll take my beatin' as my gentle reminder that these negative feelings are not what I want for myself going forward. Nope. I want to be happy. I am going to work more on achieving that. I will be happy, healthy, and whole. XW can watch my transformation and either get on board herself or just live with knowing that she pissed away her marriage and a good man. Regardless, I am moving forward.

[frank_D]

so, disengage. Now. You are codependent on her. She treats you like a woose.

Does that feel good?

I don't think so.

I like you. You're not a woose. You're a man. I like that man.


Do you?

[still hopeful]

so, disengage. Now. You are codependent on her. She treats you like a woose. Does that feel good?

No, it does NOT. She has treated me like a wuss, and I've allowed it for so long. I have begun making changes in NOT allowing her mistreatment of me.

Generally, it is easier for me to just not be around her, but I am growing. I am changing. It is so easy to lapse back into my a$$ kissing behavior, because it is so familiar and such a deeply ingrained bad behavior patter.

I like you. You're not a woose. You're a man. I like that man.

THIS is exactly why I love this man. If you want it right between the eyes, he'll deliver a truth blow right quick. Thank you, Frank. I appreciate having you as a friend. I appreciate your willingness to deliver the truth, holding nothing back. I need you as my friend.

I got myself off my own right track. I am struggling to find my 'track' again because I've been off it for so long, but I know it's right in front of me; invisible due to the 'forest for the trees' syndrome from which I have suffered for almost 10 years. I see what I need to do and I'm making positive strides to kill the wussy in me. I AM a man...a GOOD man. I deserve better. I demand better...from me and those I choose to allow in my life.

[still hopeful]

I am making progress in disengaging from initiating contact. Now I see that I need to disengage from being open and available to contacts initiated by her. I will JUST DO IT!, for me and my children. I demand more. I deserve better. I am a man. Co-dependency doesn't suit me. I am no longer tolerating mistreatment. Moving forward.

[still hopeful]

Journaling (mostly about me, NOT my sitch):
REALLY LOOOOOOOOOOONG!

The last couple of days have been good. I saw my children today at church and, as always, that brightened. I've been feeling stronger emotionally as I've had less and less contact with XW. It's unfortunate I didn't follow others' advice earlier. But, I can't beat myself up over what I didn't do right. I only know that I didn't start backing away because I didn't think doing so was the correct thing to do. Sadly, in all of our sitches, we won't ever get the opportunity to go down a certain path and if that doesn't work, we can erase it and take a different option. But I guess, that's life. Do overs in life are never granted. We can't undo something we've done wrong.

Since I've come to the boards 3 years ago, I've become much more transparent with the people in my life. I've come clean on my secrets, which were burning a hole in my soul. I don't have things to hide any more. Now, I just tell the truth (tactfully, of course) and let the chips fall where they may. Strangely, my sitch has been a growing process for me. I am a better man today; better but sadder.

I've taken control of the other relationships in my life as a man should. I don't control others, I simply control myself and keep myself and others to my boundaries. I'm definitely a different man today than I was. Despite the fact that I have not moved as far in my R with XW, as I have in other R's is simply motivation to continue growing and stretching. With as far as I have come from where I was 3 years ago, I am committed to taking full advantage of all of the gifts given to me by God and making myself into the person that He wrote in His book before even one day had passed. I have finally truly forgiven myself for my mistake, my affair. I am no longer punishing myself. I know I am forgiven by the One who matter.

I signed on to Facebook recently. I didn't really keep in contact with anyone from HS or college, excepte my best friend from college. In HS, I had a good friend named Alison. We ran cross country together. We never dated. We were just good friends.

Anyway, I never forgot Alison and always wondered where she was and how she was doing. I've tried to find her though various social networking sites over the past 25 years, but to not avail. Well, when I signed onto Facebook, I didn't really fill everything out. My information was pretty skeletal. Regardless, I've had tons of friends from HS and college contact me. That has been wonderful to experience because I've spent the past several years being beaten on emotionally by my XW. It is really nice to KNOW by others' actions that I am not the a$$ that I was being told so often that I was and am. The people who have contacted me I haven't alienated the behavior that I was so often painted as displaying towards my XW. More help to drop more of the 'crap' piled on my shoulders onto the ground that has been weighing me down emotionally and physically. I feel lighter. Emotionally stronger.

I searched Alison on Facebook. I found her name and looked at the profile picture. The woman in the picture is HOT! I thought, "NO, that can't be her", and let it go, kinda bummed. Another empty search. No big deal, I thought. I'll just keep searching. It's already been 25 years. About a week after I searched for my friend, I received a friend request from the same woman, the HOTTIE! I thought, that WAS her! That IS her! I responded yes to the friend request and we started 'talking'.

Let me get this out of the way right now because everyone asks me about this. Alison has been happily married for 16 years and has three beautiful children. She lives up in Washington state. I always wanted to find her just to talk and to see how she is doing, hoping she is doing great. Well, we have re-connected and she is doing great and I am so happy that we've found each other. I don't have a lot of friends, and Alison and I instantly connected. We always had a special connection and it's amazing that we still do. I'm happier in general having re-connected with her.

One of the strange but amazing things is that we both really liked each other in HS. But my being a year older and having my own self-imposed restriction of not dating anyone younger than I, plus having a GF, made it so we were never anything more than buddies. It's so funny now to hear how she had a crush on me, but I was too dense to see it. We saw each other all the time. She went out of her way to see me. Honestly, I'm not much less dense as an adult. Mostly, I discount female attention towards me as anything other than an interest in me. Self esteem issue when it comes to women and rejection for sure. Started long before XW started hammering me.

Alison said she was reluctant and scared to send the friend request to me because she didn't think I'd remember her and might think she was an internet stalker. LOL. I laugh because I know my feelings about her and because I've had similar fears that caused hesitation in or debilitation from moving forward. Fear of the unknown. Fear of embarrassment, of humiliation, of rejection. Alison trudging through her fears is a great lesson in initiative and determination. I told her my story of not really keeping in contact with anyone from HS, but I did search for her, and only her, unsuccessfully mind you, for the last 20 years! She told me she thought I just might ignore her friend request. I can't explain how great it feels to find out that Alison, who I missed dearly and unsuccessfully tried to find for so long, felt so warmly for me also, even after all the time that has passed with no contact.

The point of me telling you about Alison, is to offer to you my growth learned and earned during my sitch. I told Alison in the beginning, please tell your husband (Jeff) about me. We aren't doing anything wrong and we're not going to. Alison said her husband is a jealous type. I repeated my plea, "Please tell Jeff about re-connecting with your HS friend, Tom." I told her, Jeff can even read our IM log. I could tell by her silence that SHE would not like that. I kept on it because, as I told her, "I finally found you after 25 years. Please don't make FB a sticky issue. I don't want to lose you over nothing. A secret from your husband, even though you and I aren't doing anything wrong, IS wrong because it's a secret; especially if Jeff finds out that you and I are talking and YOU didn't tell him and explain. I told her, I don't mean to pound my need to protect Jeff's feelings but, my pastor put it best: "It's everyone's responsibility to assist in assuring the success of ALL marriages." She said thank you. She will take care of it. Of course, the other reason I feel so strongly about helping Alison to do the right thing in her marriage is because of all of my time her with all of you. I don't ever want to contribute to the problems in any marriage, least of all Alison and Jeff's.

Alison kept telling me how I am so 'smooth' and probably have left a lot of broken hearts behind. I told her that everything I talk about is from reading, conversing with friends, praying and experience. I told her, I don't have a script or lines. I'm just me and if that's not enough I tell people to take a hike. Similarly, the two women that I 'spend time' with both had jealous reactions to my re-connecting with Alison even though she is married with 3 children and lives in Washington state. I had the same response for both of them, "I am not doing anything wrong. I'm being open, honest and transparent. It's unfortunate that you're having this baseless reaction, but I do understand. I understand and my relationship with Alison is separate from you and it's very important to me. End of story." I've never been an exclusive relationship with either of the women that I 'spend time' with, and have been up front honest with them from DAY 1. I am simply doing what I didn't do with my W, which is being transparent. I have nothing to hide. I am holding others to the boundary that I will not take your attacks. Every day I feel myself getting stronger. Soon, I will be strong with XW the same as I am in all of the rest of my life. I'm making progress.

In closing, I know I am getting stronger. I have re-connected with my 2 of my best friend from college. I have re-connected with many friends from long ago. I have reconnected with Alison. My spirit is nourished. My self esteem is bolstered. My confidence is high. I am really feeling what Frank always tells me. I am a good man. I've grown so much. I owe frank_D in particular, so many others who gave love, hope and encouragement, including the 'kick in the butt' crew that is always around to encourage productive behavior and admonish counter-productive behavior. If anyone reads down this far, I'll be astonished. Good morning, it's 4:05am PST. Going to bed.

[still hopeful]

JOURNALING:

UPDATE- Tuesday evening I was 'T-boned' in an intersection. The good news is that no one died and my son and I weren't hurt. The bad news is that the driver of the other car broke her leg pretty badly and both of our cars were badly damaged.

A bit more on the bad news side is, I didn't carry rental car coverage. So, my bad luck seems to keep getting worse. I'm out a car right now waiting on insurance and repairs. I'm looking for work. I've made very little headway in DBing since I split with and divorced from my XW. I needed to rely on XW to come and pick up me and S3 from the accident and she has been kind enought to cart me around while this gets sorted out, but her patience and kindness has run out. <Sigh>

That's all for now.

[still hopeful]

JOURNALING:

My focus on DBing has taken a major hit with the car accident. I am beside myself trying to get on my feet and I seem to keep getting one gut shot after another. I feel weak and beaten down. I thought things couldn't get lower...then my car accident. My stress and sadness have reached new highs and lows respectively. I feel like I'm drowning in sh!t, and my sitch is only a part of it. I'm hurting bad right now. Trying to catch my breath.