You are doing so well - and it is tough DB'ing and not telling your H about your anger and pain.
I can relate to you wanting to tell him your thoughts and feelings. I wanted to do the same. The urge was so strong at times that I wrote my thoughts down in an email and then not send it. I would save it as a draft and that became my journal. I said that things I wanted to say - but The X never saw them.
I also feel the urge to talk about things when I am feeling upset or disturbed. I think it is a woman thing to want to talk things out, clear the air and work things out But I have noticed that the cave thing is very real for men. The more I use to press The X to talk, the more he would resist and the more overwhelmed he would become.
More recently, I have found in my interactions with the semi-GF that he also tends to withdraw if I press for explanations or ask him to clarify where he is and what he thinks. He tends to feel pressured, overwhelmed and then withdraw.
I also use to repeat things over and over again. I would change the format - but I would just keep hammering. Now I have realized that the first time I say something is usually enough. Everytime I repeat something - it just increases the pressure on a P and they seem to withdraw.
I have learned my lesson this time. I have learned to ask the semi-GF to tell me if he needs space to think. That way I don't feel shut out - I don't feel like his need for space is personal - it is just his way of processing his own thoughts. And it does seem to work - when I back off, he comes forward on his own to talk about his thoughts. Now I need to work on listening - insteading of trying to fix things!
From reading your thread, it seems like your H is not ready to make a decision yet. But, if you ask him to make a decision, it will probably be away from you. Even showing him that you are preparing for a D seems to confuse him. He sounds very overwhelmed by his job, at the prospect of the D, and worries about being a good father.
Have you tried just validating w/o expressing any opinions or suggestions? I mean absolutely no opinions - no books on co-parenting, no mention of sad memories. He already knows that the D will impact the kids, he knows he is losing his whole way of life - so there is really no need to remind him anymore. I know acting this way might make you feel like a empty shell of a doormat. I know that this is really hard for me to do!
As for the ILYs - I know when I was under a lot of pressure at work, I didn't always feel passion when I said ILY to The X. It was something I said - but didn't always think about what it meant at the moment. But didn't mean that I didn't love The X - it was just that I was too preoccupied to feel the love at that moment. So please don't take his analysis of his emotions about the ILY's too seriously. He was probably too overwhelmed by work to have the capacity to feel much of anything for anyone at those moments.
Hang in there. Your H is very confused - but he doesn't sound like he is ready to move on yet.
Manisha, how did you get to be so wise? I have re-read your post a thousand times, I need to remember all that. Though, at times I almsot want to push him out of the house, living with the moods is so hard, as much as I try not to, it does bring us all down. But I'm not going to do anything dumb to make things worse.
He came home with the down/stone look. Wouldn't look me in the eye, only one word answers to questions. SO I ask, would you like me to leave you alone, do you want time to yourself? No. He askes, something is on your mind, what is it? So I tell him I'm only trying to make conversation and will stop if that is what he wants. He says conversation is fine, so I just chat away about the kids as trying to draw him into anything does not work.
We checked out a boyscout thing for S6 and then came home and H went to bed at 8:30 (had to go to work at 2 or so). He had to tell me 100 times he won't be here Saturday night, I just said had fun and asked no other questions. I'm really pissed about this, what is this, going to spend a night in a hotel for one night? He only took a small overnight bag, so I guess he'll be home sometime on Sunday. Where is he going to be, with whom? This seems very odd? Is this a payback for me visiting friends last weekend? Ugh. I'm going to keep my mouth shut, not going to push him out, just a bit hurt and confused at the moment, but that seems par for the course this past year.
Hi All, I have not been posting to others much since coming over from MLC, but I was reading this and thought I could offer something maybe. Briefly, separated on and off 3 times in the last almost 2 yrs. Found out after 1st separation he had had long term A. He ended it,moved back in before either one of us was ready. This happened 3 times. This last time, I really thought he was out of the tunnel only to find he went back in and withdrew. I couldn't handle it. He may have stayed had I not pushed, but I think he was looking for an out. I left him alone after he moved out. Did my own thing, thinking painfully it would never work. Too much had happened. Finally alomost two months ago, I asked him out. We've been seeing each other ever since-latley quite alot. The difference is this time I initiate NO R. talks. Before I would always start them and try to "fix" him. Both of us would end up frustrated and mad. He did not enjoy our times together because he never knew what to expect. I always felt depleted after trying to get him to see "reason." Now, we enjoy each others company. Last time I asked him if he enjoyed being with me he said "yes", instead of "sometimes." I saw us in so much of what you were saying about the anger and hurt you hold inside while they act so weird-like they don't want to be home, and can be so cold and indifferent. I doubted if he even liked me,let alone loved me! It's very hard to take.You do walk on eggshells trying to do what you think will please them, but nothing seems to. I was almost relieved when he moved out this last time. I was at the end of my rope. We weren't happy, or I should say HE wasn't happy at all. He felt trapped. So...here we are,months later. I'm afraid to hope we are moving towards each other, but I guess that's what we're doing. He is still reluctant to say ILY, but admits he does when I asked him. He is kind, considerate, affectionate, and seems happier now overall.I know he is afraid to talk about us getting back together. So am I. I am afraid he'll say something negative about it, so I don't bring it up. I figure it's sensless to ask him to move home. When he wants to-he'll ask. It's hard when youv'e worked so long and hard on yourself and then you start seeing each other again not to get lost in him and trying to work on our R. I know I can't let that happen. He needs to see I have my own life. I want us back together,and I want our love back. We have been married a very log time and have 3 children. He has always been a wonderful Father, and up to when all this happened, a wonderful husband. I have alot of fears I'm trying to overcome, the main one being that he will just decide he deosn't love me anymore and can't get it back. All indications are that he is trying to get to know me again,likes spending time with me, and if my guess is right TRYING to find his way back. He even said he'd probably want to go to Colorado with me and youngest S over Thanksgiving to see oldest S. I asked, he said probably and I dropped it. I don't dwell on stuff. They can't handle it. I make my questions simple and matter of fact, and take what he says without question. He is spending the night tonight. Our S will be gone. He seems to like those times we can be together all night. I just have to give him enough space so he does not start feeling pressured again to make decisions he may not be ready to make yet. I suppose it's limbo to a degree that I have NO commitment,but I do have how he is acting towards me. It's somewhat mixed messages in that he is not forthcoming verbally how he is feeling, but his actions say he's wanting to explore the possibilities, and he likes to be with me. I know there is no OW. I say that, but I guess you always have that nagging doubt after you've been betrayed. It takes a long time to rebuild trust. I'm acting "as if" I trust him, and NEVER bring the OW up anymore. A big 180 for me. I guess I figure if he wanted, he he would be with her. He's had plenty of opportunity. He's never asked for a D. Awhile back when I was mad at him about something I told him to file-that it was over. He never did. I guess my point is that all this takes time. You have to learn to trust each other again, and feel comfortable together. When they leave, they don't know what else to do. They are so confused and are running from their pain. They have to know that to be around us will not cause more pain and that we are the friend-not the enemy. Please visit me on my thread-You Can't Hurry Love. I welcome all comments. We are all trying to find our way through this, and others input can give us a fresh perspective on things. Have a great weekend! Rachael
Thanks Rachael, it is good to hear from people who have been through this. Provides hope and insights to what they are going through.
I have a question, or need of opinions.
A month ago, when things were peachy, we booked four tickets to Orlando, planning to do the beach and Disney over Columbus Day weekend. The tickets are bought and paid for.
We have only briefly talked about it since bomb #2, saying only one would take the kids. I thought we should all go, but I have said that once and will not repeat it.
Last night he said at boyscouts we need to talk about Disney, but we didn't get the chance.
I didn't book hotel or car rental as all this crap came up. I go back and forth, should I go, should I plan? If we are going to be operating two homes, money will be really tight. Will it be harder for me to be home alone while they are in Disney, or should I plan and go and he can join us if he wishes. Just use the old credit card like I would if we were married.
How should I proceed? This talk will come up soon. Should I have plans in place and tell him I'd love for him to join us. Should I bow out and let him deal with the kids on a family vacation on his own? Help!!!
There are two big questions: 1. What do you want to do? 2. What will bring you closer to your goal?
If you really want to go to Disney, tell him that you will go with the kids and he can join you if he wants. And leave it open to him to look for his own hotel room and car if he wants. You get your stuff ready for the kids and you. Just do not press the issue too hard. Manesha is absolutely on target in her post.
On the other hand, he might want to go himself and leave you behind. He may use a trip to Disney with the kids as an opportunity to let off steam and think about himself.
My H and I found that separate vacations with our D helped: I went in May and learned to confront myself and my past, and he went in August and decided to return home. They called me once a day and I did not find that week lonely at all but an opportunity to be alone with myself and my thoughts without pressures.
If you are concerned about money, bring up the subject. Are the tickets refundable?
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Quote: There are two big questions: 1. What do you want to do? 2. What will bring you closer to your goal?
I don't know--how's that for an answer?
1. To be completely honest, I'll give you what is going on in my head. There is the hassle of travelling with the kids, by myself, on a plane, renting a car late at night, driving unfamiliar territory and dealing with them alone for 5 days. However, once we are there and the travel is over, the potential to have fun and just do what we want is high. I can handle them on my own, I know that, just sometimes you need down time, and that won't be possible on my own. Though, I won't have to be worrying the entire time that H is going to get mad at their behavior, so that stress is removed. Also, and this is the nastiest part of me talking, if H doesn't go, I think it sends a big signal to the kids and the world (relatives), that he just doesn't want to deal with the family and makes him the bad guy. I know it is bad to feel that way, but I do. I guess I'm tired of protecting him. I'll never say a bad word to the kids about him, but actions have to speak to even a 4 and 6 year old. So if I stay home, what message does that send them? And I don't know if I want 5 days to myself, I'd be very lonely, I know that. Though it could be good for me. So there are pros and cons to both. As always.
2. My big goal is to leave the door wide open for H to desire to work on the marriage and do nothing in anger or haste that would close the door. I don't know how Disney impacts this goal.
Sounds like you want to go. Do it and leave the door open for your H to go if he wants. But if he wants to go, let him make his own arrangements. I think you would prove to yourself and your family that you can go on without your H (a good DB goal) and also give him some space to think of what his life would be without you in the picture. He may find out things about himself that surprise him....
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Cathy, Have at the goal, I'm sure you know, it isn't an easy one.
Optomist, thanks for reading through the crap and being able to get to what I want. Ithink I'm going to rent a convertible! The kids have alwyas been intrigued by one, think we'll try it out. Better start making plans, it is only two weeks away!
