You are doing a great job. Stay steady and take one day at a time.
Here are my votes:
1. Act as if and let him find his own damn apt. Act as if you believe that this is time for him to think. Time and space. That's it.
I agree that you need to consider the possibility of a D, but try not to let this be your focus. You can cross that bridge when you come to it if necessary.
2. I'm not sure I understand what you're aking about the kids. I am fortunate in that our children are too young to understand much of what's going on. My thoughts on telling your children - Tell them together, and emphasize to them that you both love them very much no matter what.
3. This early on I'd let him come and go with no set schedule. I got alot of advice at first to "set up terms" of the separation, but I resisted this. Every sitation is different, and you may have to change things as the sitch changes, but I felt like it provides opportunities for me to act as if and show H the changes I'm making. I'm not advocating waiting around for him. Go ahead and make plans for you and the children. H could participate if he wanted to. At some point, you may feel you need to give him a taste of reality, and maybe you feel like now is the time for that, but I would think it over first.
4. Let it drop about the therapist. He knows you are willing to help him find one. He knows you want to go to Retrovaille. When he is ready, he will tell you. I worry that continuing to bring it up would seem like pressure. My H said the same things about not being ready. Give him some time.
Good for you, Jackie for going to the beach. I did the same thing two w/e during this whole thing. (One w/e was the Retrovaille w/e we had registered for, the other was valentine's w/e - yuck!) It is hard, but by going you are showing him your strength.
Hopefully the intimacy will continue. I think you wrote to me once that it can be a bridge for the two of you.
I will be thinking of you and saying prayers. Hang in there. You have crossed one hurdle already.
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hi jackie....it's hard to know what to say.....my h actually called me and took me and showed me his apt...I kinda packed some extra stuff that he could have too..but I left the day he moved...you have to do what your gut feels is the right thing...you have the choice to be angry and mad or to try and half way understand that he is asking for space and respect that. You have to be a distant friend to him..don't put restrictions on the kids seeing him.....the goal here is to piece the r back not drive him away out of anger..come here for the vents.
I wrote a really, really long answer, with lots of quotes but somehow it never got posted. I suspect it was a casualty of the site remodelling.
In any case, here is my take:
1. I beg to differ with nearly everyone about the apartment. From the tactical point of view (have you read Macchiavelli's The Prince?), it may be a good move to help him. Of course, only if it feels right to you. I'll explain myself: by what you are telling us, your H is clearly going through a major MLC and is absolutely confused on what he wants or needs. If you help him move, you are acting as HIS FRIEND and 'facilitating' his getting some space to think (hopefully). So, you are the good guy, not the clingy wife. And, here comes the machiavellic part, if you two pick the place together and even you help him decorate it, you are giving him nice memories of you every time he comes in. My H stayed in our empty house while my D and I went on vacation just after I found out about the EA and called me 3 to 4 times a day just to 'check up on me' He felt the house was falling on him! Help him out and then leave him alone, give him time to miss you.
Of course this only applies if you really feel that is good for you. Trust your instincts, not your emotions!
2. Agree with mockers about the kids. They need to be told by both of you. And make sure to tell them that you both love them and you'll always be their Mom and your H will always be their Dad. Repeat the mantra often. And do not limit your H's access to the kids. It is not fair for them.
3. Also agree with mockers on 'no limits'. Go ahead and set up your life, do your stuff and act as if, but leave him a door open so that he knows that if and when he gets his act together you'd be open to consider a R. Something like 'ILY and want what is best for you. Go ahead, think about your life, repair yourself. Once you have clear what you want, come back and tell me. Then if at that time I want to, I will decide whether I want to continue with you on those terms. And if you like the physical side, enjoy! but do not take it too personal, just as good fun. Women tend to equal sex with intimacy but it is not the same for most men. Just use that side as another channel of communication without reading too much into every gesture
4. Do not push the therapy thing. Or Retrovaille. He seems to have a lot of mental housekeeping to do. Time will come.
Keep up the good work!
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Hey there. First I want to say that it was a good move to end the R talk when all he could contribute was negativism. He's showing little hints of his confusion. He holds you to two standards: "Go on without me" and "Don't face the reality of divorce." It may be that he's looking for an inconsistency, some way to justify that you really do want him to go. Stick to your guns... at this point, it isn't important that he understand what your doing, just that you still care about him. You can show him that.
I know from my experience on the moving issue, my H didn't want me to help him find an apartment. I offered and he was horrified. I can't say if things would have been different had I helped, but I walked away from the issue. I didn't go to his apartment or show any other interest until I was invited many months later. I don't think it hurts to ask to help, I just don't know what happens if a WA accepts the help.
I did not help my H move. I took his key away and changed the locks, so that he couldn't avoid me or get wierd ideas about what was his when I wasn't around. He hated it, but it worked for me and I think avoided some arguments over things that might have simply disappeared from the house.
I sat on the computer or cleaned house or watched movies while he packed his stuff. Personally, I think it was important that he pack his things himself, even if I had to stare at it for weeks on end. Occassionally, I had to be actively consult with him or to help him move something heavy. The whole thing was hard to watch. After moving for weeks, he finally announced that he was done... and I knew he had left a lot of important stuff. I packed that stuff up and put it downstairs. When he remembers it, he'll ask for it and I'll have it.
My H and I had lots of arguments that went something like: "You take it." "No you take it." Best arguments to have I suppose. He left a lot of stuff because his new apartment is so small. I decided not to feel guilty, because he can have any of it back if he decides to come home.
Whatever you do, don't take this all personally. Great sex, great times, great kids, great lifestyle are not what the WA is focused on. He's in pain. He's confused. He needs to go and see that the grass is not very green.
I don't have kids, so I don't think I can address your issue about co-parenting. My H asked if he could visit the dogs, which I know is different. I told him he could see them anytime he wanted, just to call before he came over, so I didn't think there was a prowler in the yard. He didn't visit them very often, but the bond over the dogs became a good starting point for good contact between us.
One thing you need to consider is that your H needs a place to have the kids, before he can keep the kids. Once he finds a place, he'll have a better idea of how realistic it is to have them over. If you wanna be sly, offer to let him stay in your house with the kids on his days, while you stay somewhere else. Oh, the memories...
Hey...just checking in...I agree with Ll I don't like the changes, but oh well...such as life.Hope you are staying strong.....I know it's hard....but brighter days are ahead...you can do it...
Thanks for all the thought provoking questions and comments.
Acorn, You are very kind. I do need to make a decision and stick to it. I tend to be in the "fixer" and "please" mode a bit too often, need to step back and let him figure it out while I fix me. I'm still debating what is right for me, what I can and can't handle. Though it seems my strength just confuses the hell out of him.
Mockers: As always, great thoughts. I'm definitely letting him do the apartment search on his own, not going to facilitate that, but Optimist has a great point on being his friend. I think I'm going to go frame two pictures we had done in June of the kids for his new apartment. If he doesn't leave, then they will be in frames I like for my house. I am going to let him have free reign, if it starts to make me uncomfortable, then maybe I'll go to boundaries.
Sue, you are right, anger will only drive him away. I need to keep a check on that and my sarcastic thoughts.
Steve, I agree, he is very unhappy, I just don't know about how hopeless it is, how much hope do I hold out to just then dive back into the pit of no hope again?
z--I didn't even realize that I was stopping in the face of negativism, but that is a good point, to stop a conversation cold when it goes there. I was just thinking it was an argument I couldn't win and wasn't going to argue about whether my H loves me or not. I like the idea of staying in the house, have to think aobut that one.
H is actively looking for apartments, he told me that last night. We started to talk about what furniture he is going to take, I told him it was all his, he could have what he wants, I just want the family room stuff. He is planning to take most of the crappy stuff, asking if I thought it would fit in the back of the van. Then he said, IF I move out (my emphasis, not his), I'll take...... and then it was IF I move back in we can get a new bed. So how much hope do I place on the IFs? Of course I'm hopeful he'll say, lets work on this, but I feel like I'm in limbo again, but I have to say I am not walking on eggshells again. I refuse to do that.
We talked a bit more, he starts it, I don't. He said, what are you thinking, be honest. I said, you said IF. He said how can you have so much faith in us? I told him that since the bomb I have had to dig deep down and realized that he was putting work before everything and I was putting the kids before everything and it was burying our love. But that we have seen glimpses of it. He then said, thank you for loving me.
We then went upstairs and did it. No weepiness. I then took the kids out for an errand and when I got back the talking and hugging H was gone and the other personality had appeared. Guilt, regrets, I don't know? I just put the kids to bed and read a book.
He is still planning on going to a hotel for the weekend, won't tell me where. Very odd, I think. Is it to "get back" at me for going off and having fun last weekend? Is it some woman he wants to explore his feelings with? So many questions without answers. I dreamt of him and OW last night.
My parents are coming to visit next Friday for a week, so the cat will have to be out of the bag soon. Decision time.
All it means is your H hasn't shut any doors. While he comments that he belives some possibilities are less likey to happen, he does recognize there's a chance anything can happen ... and by you being optimistic and positive is causing his attention to be drawn to that door back to a happier M ... the one that he is keeping ajar for now. You're doing great! Keep going with what works and in time he will come to think its quite possible to step thru that door.
Quote: I feel like I'm in limbo again
Yes, you are waiting on H to find a direction, so it feels like your in limbo, but your interactions of the last few days are laying the first bricks towards a new, better foundation. You are handling yourself in a different manner than he expected. Its forcing him to look at you in a different light ... a more positive light.
KAW--thanks for such an encouraging post. Sometimes a reminder of why I'm doing this is needed.
The angry mode is starting to creep in. Why shouldn't I tell him how dissapointed I am in him? He doesn't have the courage or strength to look at the problems or deal with them, he wants to run away....dig a hole in the sand and stick his head in. Yet I love this man. Someone who tells me they have no feelings for me, can't love me, lost that feeling, won't ever come back. Am I just a glutton for punishment, do I hate failure that much that I'm sticking on to someone that doesn't want me? Am I that desperate to be a married woman? To not have my pain on display for the public...poor Jackie, her husband walked out on her and the kids.
Why does a certain spark of glee enter when I think I can paint my bedroom any color I want, build a porch out back (is it really necessary to dig down to build a porch, can't you just pour cement on top of grass and save all that trouble), I don't have to wipe up the bathroom sink every morning. But those are only material things, but if I was truly happy in my M, would I have those thoughts? Does putting someone else first just become so exhausting the though of not doing it suddenly becomes appealing.
But then the thoughts of no one loves me, I'm unloveable creep into my conscious and I want to lash out at him for making me doubt me so much. ugh. I just want to tell him I think he is a coward. A liar. A selfish narcissist. (redundant) But I love him, how messed up is that.
My H stayed in our empty house while my D and I went on vacation just after I found out about the EA and called me 3 to 4 times a day just to 'check up on me' He felt the house was falling on him! Help him out and then leave him alone, give him time to miss you.
