Sue, you are just too kind. As I was typing that, I was being interrupted every five minutes by some one walking into my office ... and on my lunch break too! ... so I just reread it and I really didn't like the way it turned out, but I guess I did get my point across.
Quoting Jackie: KAW, I hear what you are saying, I need to back off and let him deal with the stuff on his own, in his own way. I need to be strong and support the journey he is on.
... and in the meantime, focus on dancing in the minefield. ... for if you can come to enjoy dancing then ... you can dance your way thru anything!!
darkblue hit upon something I forgot to hit upon the first time around. Do you get along with BIL & his family? If so, no matter what the future brings, I'm sure you will continued to be welcomed by BIL, so you will always be "Auntie". Don't strain to see over yonder Jackie, the twins are here now and you are their Aunt. Make the most of that!
Quoting Jackie: I am going away this weekend and he will have the boys on his own on Friday and Saturday night.
This sounds like great timing for just such an arangement. It will allow H to deal with sons' concerns too, as no doubt they will probably bring them to light when they are with him. Hope you are planning something you will enjoy doing?
Quoting Jackie: I have no idea what Sunday night will bring.
Act "as-if" nothing will come of it being Sunday. No expectations. If something does happen to change the current dynamic, it will have to come from H!
Here's to you being smooth on your feet this weekend!
When do you ever make a post that doesn't make sense? Some of the people here are amazing at the brillant insights and writing they have, and you are definitely in that group!
I like your reminders to be patient and to stop borrowing trouble! I need to dance again. I need to laugh. And probably do it with my children and bring up all our spirits.
My BIL and SIL have never been overly close. H and I each have one sibling and I have tried to do family functions and put them on the top of the list, but that came up in C, H doesn't want that. His B has been on the climb of money and prestige, live in a ritzy part of the state and we just don't fit into that. Also having kids, vs. not having kids made a bit of a difference. But, kids changes everyone's lives, so they may ease up a bit. I'll have to keep positive thoughts and go with the flow of things.
I too, think you are their Aunt..I am closer with inlaws then my own family..going to h niece's wedding in a few weeks with h...do what you feel is comfortable for you and the family.
I have been keeping up with you, just not been posting as don't know what to add here to all the great advice you are getting plus so close to everything for me a bit difficult.
But from personal experience don't make the Sunday decision time a big deal. Just be supportive. I don't think he is going to figure all of this out quickly. He seems very confused and to be hurting a lot. I know David isn't. He has been gone two months now, I'm not sure he is any closer, I am pretty sure he didn't expect it to take him this long from some things he had said about Ceb being gone for three months like he couldn't believe that long!
I DO think you are doing a very good job managing your emotions and honestly them being gone does get easier. I didn't think it would but it did. I can't remember how long it took me to get to that point but at least it came thank goodness!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jackie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
I am trying to prepare myself for Sunday when he says that he needs more time and needs to leave for "good". I know it isn't hopeless, I have seen some of the success stories here. I'm climbing up from the emotional hole I was in a few days ago.
This isn't going to turn around overnight. He needs to figure this out. I worked on correcting problems A, B, C, etc. that we identified back in November, but without his help, I just can't go any further in fixing our problems. He needs to fix his and I need to build a life for my own. And, I just can't be perfect. I can't be the perfect housekeeper and the stress of trying to do it was killing me and making me resentful.
I'm not going to bring up anything on Sunday. I will be happy to see him and leave it at that.
Quoting Dagny: I am trying to prepare myself for Sunday when he says that he needs more time and needs to leave for "good". I know it isn't hopeless, I have seen some of the success stories here. I'm climbing up from the emotional hole I was in a few days ago.
Great Jackie, that is the best mindframe. Who knows what he is going to do? I had absolutely prepared for my H to ask for a D when we first separated, and he came back ready to try again.
Quoting Dagny:This isn't going to turn around overnight. He needs to figure this out. I worked on correcting problems A, B, C, etc. that we identified back in November, but without his help, I just can't go any further in fixing our problems. He needs to fix his and I need to build a life for my own. And, I just can't be perfect. I can't be the perfect housekeeper and the stress of trying to do it was killing me and making me resentful.
You are so right: you cannot change in a way you do not want to change. You should not turn yourself into a person you do not want to be. Be who you want to be, and he will realize things sooner or later.
Quoting Dagny: I'm not going to bring up anything on Sunday. I will be happy to see him and leave it at that.
So absolutely right. Way to go girl!
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
You are doing a great job, Jackie. Keep acting as if, be glad to see him as you are planning to. If he needs more time, you can give him that. Plan something really special for yourself this weekend. How about a massage?
I thought of the other idea I had yesterday - I think I have mentioned it before here somewhere, but not sure. Have you ever seen Flylady's website? I found it when looking for house organization/cleaning suggestions. It is mainly about the house, but does also touch on taking care of yourself, living joyfully. It's free to join, and I've really enjoyed it. Sounds kind of wierd as I type it, but it's really been helpful and inspiring - especially during this painful time.
I'll be thinking of you this weekend.
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
I love Mockers' idea of a massage. Last Fri, just after my H and I had had a big row (I actually told him to go away again: see my thread in Infidelity for more details), I went on a bussiness trip. Got there 7h early, so I went to the hotel spa, swam for an hour, had a Swedish massage and a facial! I had not been that relaxed in my life! Fixed me for a whole week! It is money absolutely well spent, on me for a change. I calculate it saved me about 3 or 4 psychologist visits (and it cost less than 1h with my shrink does).
And when my H got to the hotel (by then he had apologized and backpedaled) I was very much in the mood to skip dinner and... We did! Talk about PMA!
Good luck tomorrow. Will be thinking of you.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
During the drive home on Sunday I tried to get my thoughts in order and assimilate all the great advice I have been getting. And I wanted myself prepared for what I believed my H would be telling me.
He called the cell when I was about 20 minutes away, they were just sitting down for dinner, do they want them to save it for me. Yes, thank you.
So I get home and there on the island in the kitchen is the book I had been reading upstairs, How to Help Kids Through Divorce. Big clue if he is reading one of my books, of course he didn't pick any of the relationship books. So I attempt to eat and things are awkward, but I try to act as if and chat and such.
We put the boys to bed and I unpack and he is sitting on the bed watching. I go and sit and we begin to talk. He asks about my weekend, how was it. I told him it was good, sad, hard and every emotion in between. It was hard to see happy families on the beach, but I also figured out things I need to do to get myself through these weekends. I said I didn't like it, but I survived my first weekend of not having the kids.
He then asked about my week last week. I told him it was hard, but I can do it. I told him I had to pack up all my scrapbooks, they made me too sad. He said he had noticed it, and he said we have had many happy times together.
He finally began to talk about his week, he went through it day by day. He liked last Saturday as he worked and then we did S6's soccer game and then had lunch together and then he went to the hotel to watch football. Sunday he said was rough, he said chuch was bad because he it letting God down by not keeping his vow. And being alone was tough. But, the week was fine, he cried when he told me he felt really bad, but he didn't miss seeing the kids on Monday. This weekend was fine, they just hung out and didn't do too much.
It was just like last week, we did so much talking before he left. He is still unahppy and is planning to leave. I told him I did not understand why he was doing this, but that I feel he really believes that he needs to do it and I support him in that.
He talked about telling his parents, how dissapointed he knows they are going to be and telling his boss that he won't be moving with the company anymore, he will stay in this job. We joked about how maybe his mom will be happy to finally get rid of me. I told him I planned to email people and then take the phone of the hook, he can get me on the cell. I told him I don't want to talk to people and hear them say awful things about him, that I have goals in this and I want to achieve them.
He asked about my goals and I told him I had two: The first was to reapir this relationship and leave the door open so he never feels like he is crawling back. And I don't want people to be trashing him in teh meantime, I don't want to become bitter. The second is to not screw the kids up.
A litte bitterness slipped out here and there, he said I want to do what is best for the kids, and I told him that would then be a two parent family and he told me I should then go find another parent.
We discussed (or I talked, he listened) about being in love vs. falling in love. I said some of the gestures he makes are loving ones, he said they are just caring, he would do it for my sister, and I said, yes and you love her, but I'm not in love with her. So we stopped the coversation, I didn't want him to keep going on and on about why he doesn't love me, it was a conversation taht was just going to be painful.
I told him to take the pictures we had done at Knotts Berry Farm in June, too painful, I thought as a family and couple we had a great time. He said he did, but we were on vacation, and we always have fun on vacation, it is the everyday stuff that is hard. I disagree with that to a point, if you really don't care/love, whichever word you want, a vacation won't be great.
He seemed a bit upset that I had the book on divorce and kids, why did you get it when all your other ones are on relationships? I told him he left, I needed to face reality that this could happen and I need to be ready to do what is best for the kids.
We talked practicalities, he didn't like the apts he was thinking about, he and the kids went and checked them out, so he needs to keep looking. I don't know when he will go, we still plan to do soccer games and boyscouts together. And the joint S6 birthday party in two weeks. He said he will get a hotel room for the weekend so I can have "my weekend" with the kids.
I asked if I could call him if I was horny, he said yes, I said good, because I am still your wife. He said, he didn't understand why if he was leaving he still wanted me, I told him it was because I was a good lay, he said no, a great lay. So why is this man leaving???????????
He asked a little about this weekend, I told him I met some great people who helped me look at things from his side too, that just because I didn't think he was working on things, it was because he wasn't doing it my way, didn't mean he wasn't doing things. I told him I was proud that I walked into a place where I knew no one and survived and enjoyed it. He was surprised that there were men there, I think I had made it sound more like a girls weekend.
We talked about his birthday and how hard they are for him ever since he hit 30 and he agreed that was part of this problem. He didn't want to be 50 and look back and think he had this opportunity 12 years ago to go explore whether we had "it". At one point (before he told him his plans), he said where do we go? I told him what I wanted to do, the weekend away for troubled couples, he said he'll think about it, but isn't ready. I told him I'm a good person and i deserve to feel more than I do. I asked him if he felt loved by me and he thought for a long time and said his heart is closed, but he does know it.
We talked about death and I said you don't have anything to worry about, you'll live until you are 98--he said, in only 60 more years he will be dead. I asked if he ever considered thearpy, that with or without me he is going to have birthdays and this is going to be an issue. And to find a competent therapist. He didn't reject the idea, said it is hard for guys to see therapists. I told him if he says the word I will do some research into finding a competent therapist.
Gosh, this is getting to be a novel.
Questions, He wants to move out, do I 1. Tell him if he is going, leave now, 2. Help him research apartments or 3. Act as if and let him find his own damn apartment.
He wants a hotel room for the weekend, I think it is stupid, wait till he is moving to the new place to tell the kids, don't confuse them more. Do I stick to this point or let him do what he wants?
He wants to co-parent, do I continue to do this or do I try and let him see the harsh realities of divorce and not seeing the kids regularly?
I really think the birthday in mid-August did us in. Should I continue to talk about seeing a therapist, try to find one for him or let it drop? He is a bit male in that it is not easy in getting him to a doctor.
Thank you for every ounce of support you have given me and for reading this mini-novel.
Great to meet you :-) I'm glad the beach helped you in some ways.
It sounds like there are some positive signs in your R, but I haven't read your whole thread.
Re the moving out thing... It is a hard question. I sort of helped my H find a place, and sort of helped him move out logistically... But I also sort of didn't... I didn't make a decision and stick with it. I kept trying to please him... Bad idea. I wish I had just taken a position, but I don't know which one.... "Move out now, you aren't trying and I can't live with this hell. Let me know if you ever want to try and I'll think about it." OR "I can't stop you from moving out but I'm not going to help." I do think that it was a mistake to help him look for a place. First, he wanted a place that had nothing to do with me, so helping him look kind of interferred with that. Second, I was still in fixer mode, and people pleasing mode. Third, it just wasn't good for *me*.
Whatever you decide, make a choice that you can live with.... don't make empty threats..... don't do something that you'll beat yourself up about later.....
I wish I could say more to help, but I'm kind of past the DB cheerleading stage. & Trust that no matter what happens, things *will* keep getting better, though not as steadily as one might like. Having met you, I'm sure your future is full of promise, sweetness, and love.
As I was typing that, I was being interrupted every five minutes by some one walking into my office ... and on my lunch break too! 
... so I just reread it and I really didn't like the way it turned out, but I guess I did get my point across. 
Just be supportive. I don't think he is going to figure all of this out quickly. He seems very confused and to be hurting a lot. I know David isn't. He has been gone two months now, I'm not sure he is any closer, I am pretty sure he didn't expect it to take him this long from some things he had said about Ceb being gone for three months like he couldn't believe that long! 
We did! Talk about PMA! 
