S&A, I don't have a lot of time to respond fully but I want to say that before she left today I talked to her concerning her trust issue with me (the not trusting that I won't leave again).
"W, I have been thinking about what you said about trusting me. If we have the passion and show each other the love each day as I am wanting in our marriage, I would have no reason to leave. Why would I ever leave if everything that I desire is right here with you? You need to know that I do love you and I want to be with you but not in an empty relationship."
She questioned, "How will I know if what I am doing good enough?"
I answered, "There are no guarantees about anything in life. Want me because it is something that you want not because it will keep me around."
I felt really confident saying this to her. We hugged and kissed before she had to leave.
S&A I think I will get NMMNG. You are right that my self image is sucking for air right now. My father was in my life (my folks divorced when I was 10 and mom never remarried) and we did do many things together and had a pretty good relationship. I was however raised more by my mom, 2 sisters, gram and aunt. No guys around regularly. I have denied that this could be part of my problem relating with my W. I think I do need to take a look at that book.
S&A I'm sorry I poo-pooed your advice for so long man. My W even said today, "H, you are just so touchy-feely like a woman. You are that way because you were raised by all women." Duh.... I'm a prime candidate for a "nice guy".
It sure does take a long time of looking inward before you really see the truth that lies within.
Cinco,
That's cool dude. It took me several years to really "get" what my fundamental problem was. I continually told myself it was that I wasn't getting enough sex. But that was just a symptom of the real underlying problem. The problem was a fear of life and the outside world.
I'd not had such a gnawing fear until we had a child. That naturally brought out all my wife's maternal instincts. I felt shut out and denied the attention I felt I "needed". Sex. Or so I thought.
However, the truth was more complex. My own parents divorced when I was very young - about 5. Unusually I was brought up by my father. I'll skip over a lot of history, but the long and the short of it is - I never got the kind of maternal, physical love in my formative years that probably a lot of boys take for granted. I was "starved" of it you could say. This might be why I have always been attracted to older women?!? And in some weird way, this "childhood wound" opened up into a kind of inner emptiness when I saw my wife and child together.
I kind of shrunk back to Little Boy all over again - needy, anxious to please the Mother figure, and fearful of pushing myself in the outside world (in a way that I had never even been as a little boy). However, as an adult I translated this "need" into a need for sex. Can you see how unsexy this dynamic was?
So anyway, I've made huge progress since then. Importantly, I've recognised my "childhood wound" and its now healing of its own accord. I now think, act and love like the adult man I am. And my life and marriage is much healthier as a result.
Nice Guys come in all kinds and sizes. I was starved of "maternal love". Cinco, your problem may be that you had too much of that stuff? You became dependent on it, and you've now translated it into wanting it all the time from your wife, so you don't feel complete or confident without it? Maybe your wife (despite her own issues) actually has a point?
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
S&A, too much maternal love, that's one thing I got out of the PM book. My mom and I were fused or at least I had fused to her. I was the baby the only son when my 2 sisters had left home it was just me and mom for about 8 years at age 16. I had a lot of guilt when I finally left home, she would now be alone. Thankfully my mom encouraged me to live my own life and never interfered in my marriage. I think she had some sorrow that I had to become the man of the house even though she never treated me that way. But still as a young man it did affect me, I know it did.
Even in mom's old age I am now the one here taking care of her. Both sister's live out of state. I'm all that she has here.
S&A, too much maternal love, that's one thing I got out of the PM book. My mom and I were fused or at least I had fused to her. I was the baby the only son when my 2 sisters had left home it was just me and mom for about 8 years at age 16. I had a lot of guilt when I finally left home, she would now be alone. Thankfully my mom encouraged me to live my own life and never interfered in my marriage. I think she had some sorrow that I had to become the man of the house even though she never treated me that way. But still as a young man it did affect me, I know it did.
Even in mom's old age I am now the one here taking care of her. Both sister's live out of state. I'm all that she has here.
Dang it Cinco has Mommy issues!
I will get NMMNG ASAP!
~5
Thanks for this Cinco... I told my brother to get this book. My brother was with my Mom alone from 9-18 years of age. I didnt know it had to do with Mom issues too until you and S&A had this conversation. I also recommended Deida. And sent him a link to the NMMNG site. God bless you for doing this Cinco. WTG!~!
Ali, this is so true. The love a mother and a son have is a special bond. For a boy this is our first love. As a guy grows up in a normal family he'll have his father there to learn how to be a man as he prepares to live his own life and slowly loosen this tight bond with his mother. When he is ready, he finds a woman that he will love and bond with for life, his wife.
When Dad is absent though (or not there full-time like mine), it really messes the whole dynamic up. If I had had a big brother it might have been totally different. I did have a very close friend that was like a brother to me starting in grade school up until were married (same guy I met my W through BTW). We formed our friendship about the time my folks split-up. He was an only child needing a sibling and I needed a guy companion again so we just bonded.
He was the best man at my wedding too.
After we were married our contact with each other dwindled. Due to our distance apart and just living our lives. When his wife died (tragic... an aneurysm at age 38) it really ended our contact with one another. I had/have other friends of course but none I felt as close to as with him.
He I know has the "nice guy" problem too. He was a very late in life child, his mother was 40 when he was born. Worse his father was 60 and very ill (WW II vet with war caused health problems). His mother worked and supported the family. His dad was more like having to take care of a sick grandfather, a great man just physically unable to do normal dad stuff. His father died before he graduated college.
Just giving the background saying unfortunately my big brother figure was a "nice guy" too, so we were 2 "nice guys" reinforcing our "niceness".
The good news is that my mother was very aware that she had to be careful not to bond too tightly to me. We have even talked a lot about how dad leaving when he did would affect me, so I have always been aware of it. She always encouraged contact with my father. We did indeed spend a lot of time together on weekends and doing guy stuff: sailing, golfing, football games, etc. I guess what I missed out on was really seeing the interaction between your mom and dad as you grow up.
I'm sure my awareness of this all along (thanks to mom's talks) has helped me to not be a full-on "nice guy". I've taken the test and I fall into the midrange were I only have some "nice" traits. Still it won't hurt for me to man-up a little more. No more whining, no more pleading and have the strength and courage to walk away if W is not willing to join me in a full relationship once more.
No more whining, no more pleading and have the strength and courage to walk away if W is not willing to join me in a full relationship once more.
No more limbo.. it's all or nothing.
I am sp happy for you. Thanks for sharing in your post too. It takes a lot of courage Cinco. A ton in fact to do what you are about to do. I am sure S&A will keep you encouraged. I know I will~!~ God bless, Ali
I am currently doing Yoga agin and Zumba. No more sitting around and not living. In my living room but I am doing it no less. Once I started I thought my God I have been missing this. Also I am currently on the search for a really good book for Woman on technique in the bedroom. I am also checking out the whole Tantric Sex thing. I do see where I had been an eager participant but the connection was still off. By re reading Passionate Marriage and really focusing more on my faults ? I have a deeper understanding. I was there but in too much pain and focused on that for him to "feel " me. I get that now.
What I also love Cinco? Is that he is now approachable. It has only been a few days since the meltdown but the interaction is priceless. He is even seeing his part in the R stuff and our SL going to hell. MIRACLE is what it feel like. Really and truly. Take care hon, Ali
It helps you "look" younger... JK. It cant hurt ? And I have always wanted more romance ..... ( you remember how last year I wanted him to enjoy? and let me enjoy the ride more? Not just the "O". This is it... yeah and he is willing to try it . Finally ~)
I am going to have to invest in some more books. I am such a nerd!~!~
Yes, sharing how things are for each of us I always thinks may help someone in some way. You are very welcome Ali to everything I post.
Wow Ali Tantric! I got interested in that a few years ago and actually have done some of the... um... solo exercises... but to introduce something like this to my W was always a stretch. I actually did try to get her interested. She thought is was all perverted.... SIGH
Yes, sharing how things are for each of us I always thinks may help someone in some way. You are very welcome Ali to everything I post.
Wow Ali Tantric! I got interested in that a few years ago and actually have done some of the... um... solo exercises... but to introduce something like this to my W was always a stretch. I actually did try to get her interested. She thought is was all perverted.... SIGH
Cinco
Hey , my H gets really turned off I mention I read this or that? I suppose he hears I am not inspiration enough? He just ahd another tantrum Cinco. I am moving forward. I am wondering if I can really unleash myself when he is so up and down? I will let you know. I wont see him anytime soon,, but I will let you know. ugh these hills and valleys . If only ....\ I could just walk around with a muzzle on? I wouldnt let my mouth get me in so much trouble!!! HMM? That could work.
Does the pain you feel set you off so easy to where all you think Is ? SHE DOESNT LOVE ME?
I know you arent verbally abusive love. BUt do you get really hurt by trivial things cause you are starving?
My H is still nursing his loneliness. HELP~!~!
Just knowing I can "talk " to you helps me feel better. I do like how now I dont go into meltdown when he has tantrums. Pervert huh? MY H asked me if I thought he was and I said no.
