... but I agree with Steve. Don't make any rash decisions towards seperation at this point. Try an in-house seperation of sorts and see if that helps. To my suprise for a month in the spring of last year, CAW had a lot of anger and hatred towards me when she was close to moving foward with a seperation.
Quoting Jackie: This is what I'm planning to say to him, what do you think?
I think the past year has shown that we are capable of having good times together. When I took my marriage vows and more importantly had kids, I made a commitment to provide a two parent family. I understand that you are confused and unsure of us and this marriage. If you decide to leave, that is your decision and I will not fight you or beg you to stay. My choice is to work on the marriage and stay and try to learn the secrets to fixing it. I will not give up, but I will be as understanding as possible if you do.
If you feel it will work to calm H down. The key points you want to get across is: - that you validate his position at this time. - that you are letting go of all expectations that H wants to work on M. - that you will back off and give him as much space and time as needed to him to figure out this stuff.
Then back waaayyy off! Be non-confrontal, especially when he is wallowing in his misery. He is still thinking you are the source of it, so you have to remove yourself from that equation so he can discover the true source. Give all the space he wants and focus on doing stuff just for you and the kids. Focus on presenting that PMA and being upbeat whenever around him. Be polite and pleasant at all times and let him know he is welcome to join in with what your doing but its also OK if he doesn't want to.
I know how hard it is to deal with this all over again? Are there friends you can spend more time with right now? Its an emotional time and you need to ride them out before making any major decisions. In the meantime, concentrate on doing good stuff for yourself, for your kids.
first off I will admit to not having read much of your stuff..but I did catch this last post and glanced over this thread. it seems as if h doesn't know what he wants to do... it also seems as if you don't know what to do... you did note that things seem to go best when you go about your own business and don't expect anything from him...perhaps instead of making any statement to him directly about what you want or don't want, you could simply "act as if", go about your own business..lovingly detach.
Thanks for the support. The weekend was so grueling as it kept us near each other and both in misery, the thoughts never stopped flowing and the stop sign just wasn't working.
At times I would sneak a peak at DR, just read a page to give me strenght. I hit upon one woman's story who said that she had four choices: seperate, divorce, stay married and miserable, or stay married and make herself happy. I wonder if what I've been doing, subconsciously, is just fueling the third option.
S4 came into bed at 3:30 and there was no H. I found him in the guest room and asked what was wrong. He said toss and turn--didn't want to wake me. So I borrowed some of DR and what I thought about and told him that I thought the glimpse of happiness I've seen the past year give me hope, but I also thought that he is going through a soul searching/rest of my life time and wasn't prepared at this time to work on the M. I gave breaks in my talk, hoping he would join in, but he said I should just keep talking, I was doing a good job. I said I think we gave up working on the M (the exercises we were doing) because it became hard and I'm willing to wait until he wants to work on the M. I also said one of the things the C told us a long time ago was we should do things for ourselves and he doesn't do that--his life is all work or us, no outlets. I left it at that, except to say that s4 and s6 were two very good reasons to keep going.
This is the worst I have ever felt about us. I'm discovering that I am pertified of being single, that maybe I do things to seek approval from others and need that approval to keep going. Then I get angry at things that I feel are character flaws. I've been living under this cloud, make daddy happy, don't make him mad, that I've become this shell of me. When I seem to just let go, with friends, etc., I just do something that irritates him. So many times we hear to do things that make us happy, I don't even know what that is. Before it was sharing things with H, doing things together that brought me joy and happiness. With that gone, I don't know where to turn. And I hate that I have turned into such a wishy-washy person. I don't even have a career or job to turn to for self satisifacation. And this is sounding like a pity party. Just rambling, trying to collect my thoughts.
I will do my best to be pleasant and happy. I will no longer wallow in misery, but seek opportunities to learn what I can do. We do it because it is hard.
I'm sorry to hear about what's going on for you right now. I want to go back and reread your thread more thoroughly before I offer up my two cents... but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Jackie..I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling..
I know that most others feel that sep is the end of the end..but I just want to say that my h and I have been sep almost a year..I know all sitch are different..my h has never said those things to me that yours did..but it does not mean the end. We were on eggshells and h was a nervous wreck here...I tried dbing but the end result was he needed space and I have given it. I wish I could say things are going great and that it looks like we will make it, but I do see a much calmer h and myself..we have been able to relax and work on ourselves...I have gone on with life in hopes, of course that h will decide that our m is still something he wants...Please don't take this as me saying I think sep is great..of course I don't..but if one s sayd that is what they need..to fight it would be the end to the end.
Take care of you and your kids..let h have his journey, whatever it may be for now.
Quote: At times I would sneak a peak at DR, just read a page to give me strenght. I hit upon one woman's story who said that she had four choices: seperate, divorce, stay married and miserable, or stay married and make herself happy. I wonder if what I've been doing, subconsciously, is just fueling the third option.
it is possible that if we decide that our m will make us misserable that it infact will. I know myself that when I take the stance that I'll just stay and stick it out I am not happy, when I take the stance that I will stay but make myself happy, I tend to see the m in a different light.
Quote: I said I think we gave up working on the M (the exercises we were doing) because it became hard and I'm willing to wait until he wants to work on the M. I also said one of the things the C told us a long time ago was we should do things for ourselves and he doesn't do that--his life is all work or us, no outlets. I left it at that, except to say that s4 and s6 were two very good reasons to keep going.
it's great that you were able to talk with h (how do you think it went?)
you point out that he doesn't do things for himself (no outlets, just work seems a common theme...my h too has little outside of work...well there's football but that's about it unless of course sleep is an outlet?) but you also note in a later paragraph that you don't have much outside of him and the kids either.
something that occurs when piecing r's is that in the begining there seems to be a rush of "effort", r talk, working on it...as time passes those things start to feel like effort...it can be overwhelming and bring on thoughts of "will it take this much effort always?" which can bring an abrubt stop to the work...unless of course we note if any of the work has brought about possitive change that stays until the next push of "working on it" comes along.
Quote: This is the worst I have ever felt about us. I'm discovering that I am pertified of being single, that maybe I do things to seek approval from others and need that approval to keep going. Then I get angry at things that I feel are character flaws. I've been living under this cloud, make daddy happy, don't make him mad, that I've become this shell of me. When I seem to just let go, with friends, etc., I just do something that irritates him. So many times we hear to do things that make us happy, I don't even know what that is. Before it was sharing things with H, doing things together that brought me joy and happiness. With that gone, I don't know where to turn. And I hate that I have turned into such a wishy-washy person. I don't even have a career or job to turn to for self satisifacation. And this is sounding like a pity party. Just rambling, trying to collect my thoughts.
this paragraph sound a bit more like..."this is the worst I've ever felt about me" rather than simply the m itself.
what terrifys you the most about being single?
I hear you on the not having a career or job to turn to for self satisfaction...it's not easy being a caretaker...what I did during my seperation was to create some things for myself...one morning I woke and thought "hey I'd like to join a book club" there wasn't one in my town so I started one...we meet once a month and it makes me feel good about myself. a job or carreer at this point would probably only serve to overwhelm me. what small things can you do that would give you a sense of self? possibilities... join a club or start a club.. join a league bowling or darts (they are typcially one night a week) take a class (for fun or for a future career) assign yourself one night a week that is for you...have h put the kids to bed that night and you go out..go shopping, go to a book store and read, go to a movie, go get a massage...go for a walk, go do whatever you want at first it might be awkward but you may find you enjoy your alone time.
Sue, I do keep telling myself that a sep does not have to mean the end, but if I fight it or don't attempt to understand his pain, that will be the end. The things he has said to me have been very hurtful, but don't think his ultimate goal was to cause me pain, but to be honest.
Quote:
it's great that you were able to talk with h (how do you think it went?)
He seemed receptive to what I said, but he didn't respond. I know he is agnoizing over this. He seems to have a hard time on his birthday and it brings up these thoughts. Last year I believe he didn't express his doubts until two months later, now this "m recovery" didn't work as quick as he thought it would, so I think he wants to give up, he thinks we are just post poning the inevitable.
Quote: this paragraph sound a bit more like..."this is the worst I've ever felt about me" rather than simply the m itself.
what terrifys you the most about being single?
I think you are right. I do feel lousy about me. I feel that I have failed. I feel that I am unlovable, if the one person in the world I felt I could trust and make life decisions around has deemed me to be unlovable, than what hope is there?
I guess I fear the loneliness of being single, of not having someone to share the joys and sorrows with. Of having to be alone at family type functions with the boys. I don't have a single friend who is D, everyone is a family unit. I fear not being loved.
Gosh, I do sound pathetic. I know I need to stay busy to get through this time. And I do have some of the impatience H does on this should be fixed by now.
Some days I wonder if I really do love him and then the reality of this hits and I find out what the depths of that love is, so I must be strong and do my best. Misery won't solve any of this.
So sorry you're hurting so right now. Seems you've gotten good advice and support. I agree that fighting a separation would make things worse, as scary as a separation sounds at this point. You have good ideas of working on yourself to make yourself happy and to feel more fulfilled. Also good is giving your H the space he needs.
I think you did a great job in talking with him the other night. Maybe pattern your interactions with him that way. Show him that you are taking care of yourself, developing new interests. Stay busy and active, and keep yourself and the boys around friends and family who are supportive. Continue to act as if. Try not to awfulize as this does nothing positive to your PMA or your interactions with H.
I understand the overwhelming fears that surface when the topic of separation/D come up. I have also feared being a single parent and fast-forwarded to when the children are older, going to functions, etc. Try to stop this as much as you can, although for a time it may be near to impossible. You are not at the point of having to cross this bridge yet.
The ideas for time alone for you are excellent. It seems there has to be this delicate balance of individual time, couple time and family time, which is elusive. I think the fact that you are recognizing these things is good.
Again, (((((Jackie)))), so sorry for you to be feeling so much pain right now. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Just chcecking in..I know the fear, as probably all here, about being single..not loved..I don't have young kids, so that adds a stresser raising kids alone..but you can choose to make yourself the best you can...I know you can do it..for yourself and your kids. Prayers for you
Well, He is moving out. He stopped and got information about an apartment last night.
The evening started with me being pleasant and giving him space, but I knew something was terribly wrong. After putting the kids to bed, he came in and said, oh your working, we'll talk tomorrow. I didn't want to put it off. So we talked and he told me. He then was ready to talk about the whole divorce proceeding--who gets what! I tried to slow him down and say, let's do this as a year thing, consider it as a trial separation and then go from there. He was shocked that I would want to stay in the house and collect alimony. I told him it was 2 years of separation needed for a divorce, so I think he wanted to hurry out the move out process. We talked money for a bit and then I finally told him I had enough to process for one night, I needed to go for a drive and sort things out and possibly stay the night in a hotel. That shocked him, I was rational and calm while he cried a bit.
I don't have many friends here, but I have a very good couple who are my friends and I went there and we talked. They told me I was too nice in what money I wanted from him (only covering the mortgage) and that I am leaving him off too easy. I don't want to make him bitter, I want him to not feel like I'm his enemy.
I got home around midnight and he thanked me for coming home. Around 5:30 I woke and he was awake and we talked for a bit. I asked if all the times he said ILY this past year were bullsh*t, he said no. I didn't feel I had anything to lose, so I told him all my real opinions. I didn't feel that he worked on the M, that when it got hard, he just stopped. That he didn't attempt to make any changes or find solutions to our problems. He is a perfectionist and thinks he can do everything and there is not time in the day for him to get everything accomplished and the stress is overwhelming him. He asked me where I thought I changed and I listed them and he agreed. He asked about his changes, I said any changes were a result of mine, but did he feel he changed. He said he supported my karate and Creative Memories, I told him he had always been supportive, so I don't see where that is a change.
He asked me why I still loved him. I told him a bunch of reasons and said that I never knew the depths of it until this crap hit, but somedays it was harder and I would force myself to think of what I love about him, to rid myself of negativity. My friends also suggested that I go to my parents for a week to a month and remove myself from the equation of his life and see how that works for his misery. Use the 900 for an appartment on a babysitter. I said I was thinking of this to him, and he said, but you aren't the problem! He got angry at this suggestion. He was sobbing ths morning over all this, I was weepy, but tried to continue to be rational.
A suggestion I made was for him to move into a suite hotel for a month instead of making the long term decision of an aparment and see how that goes. He seemed to listen, but took the apartment information to work with him.
We talked about the eggshells a bit and I said how so much of my life the past year was about not pissing him off, getting the kids to behave, but the model of a family that we are working on are our parents and their lives are drastically differnt from ours. He said he wouldn't spend time on his own as he felt guilt about not being with his family, yet he is willing to go the ultimate distance and break up the family. I talked a lot, but I thought I have nothing to lose and I'm tired of being scared to speak my mind. I told him that I was disappointed that we couldn't brainstorm and come up with solutions to our problems.
The he told me that I am still his best friend. So I gave him my theory on why that surprised me. I think we did more talking then than we have the past 10 months.
So that is my sad story. I don't know the end, but I know I don't want someone with me because I had to beg/plead/cry for that. I think I have surprised him with my strength. He said I am the stonger of the two of us. I don't see I have any choice in the matter.
but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you.