My perfect, loving W was not the perfect person after all. And use that info to help me fix what I need to fix in me.
I cannot agree more with this statement. This, and other things you said, is exactly the process I had to go through to heal myself. Or, begin healing. It is an ongoing process. It is a wonderful feeling when you can make it to the "compassion" stage.
Very insightful.
Thank you.
Spitty
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
My perfect, loving W was not the perfect person after all. And use that info to help me fix what I need to fix in me.
I am sorry, and I am not wanting to start any crap, but I am still so confused as to the anger and betrayal issue here.
It is not anyone's Spouse's responsibility to be the fix-it person in our lives.
We can blame all we want if we feel they are not meeting our needs, but if are not communicating what it is we want then how is it their fault?
And not to pick on anyone, but Frank chose to drink and to shut his wife out when his business failed and he was depressed.
She could no longer handle the lonliness either, because she was also shut out of Frank's life and sought comfort in someone else's arms.
I am NOT by any means saying that she was correct in her bad choices, but she was also pushed into this choice.
Both of them are equally to blame for the demise of the Marriage.
And now, when she wants to try and be responsible and help out because Frank is in deep doo-doo, everyone finds fault with her motives, etc, and makes wise arse cracks about her email jokes, etc.
I am sorry, and I am ready for the 2X4's, but none of this is helping Frank, it only feeds into the anger and self pity.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
depression is anger turned inward. Depression fueled by drink. It not only supressed our anger, but it supressed our view of the reality about us. Like taking a pain pill rather than seeing the doctor. And when you are depressed, the blame is all internal.
I agree
That is where you have been, as I was (and am to a degree).
In my case, the next step was hate. I realize now it was not hate at all, just added anger. But the added anger allowed me to focus not only on me, but on her and the environment around me. That was a major step. I remember when folks here, including you told me to lose the anger. But I am glad I did not
Then you were told, or chose to do, the opposite of what the DB coaches saidto me OR, you did not show it to her. My DB coach was adamant about "Losing the anger in front of the WAS" or you'll fuel their reasons/rationalizations for leaving (ie 'she's a bitch and I was right to leave, she just proved it, blah blah blah)...for ME, losing the anger in front of h enabled us to converse...and later, helped me get a life b/c it was consuming me. Somehow, maybe, we are playing with semantics here...
. The added anger was a signal to also look at her, look for the first time. My perfect, loving W was not the perfect person after all. And use that info to help me fix what I need to fix in me.
Interesting...
Like the horror story where Dorian Gray's portrait changes for the worst yet he appears the same, I was forced to look at my W's portrait and it was hard to look at. It still is; I still turn away. Of all the things left to do, the hardest for me is to accept, really accept, that my former soulmate did what she did and how a loving person and mother would break up a family. How her portrait showed me that if the clock were turned back that I should have not seeked her out, even as a friend.
But she too is human. This also told me that if we ever did get back together, what I would need to accept and forgive in her and myself to make a R work.
I still do not have my arms around this.
Yes this is HARD. How could H be the man I thought he was, and also be really selfish? and deceitful and be "him"? I struggled with that a long time and sometimes still do. One note, suppose h is a selfish person at times. Or in general even. Does that fault of his MANDATE that I divorce him? I dont' think so. His career, fighter pilots like my brother, surgeons, trial lawyers, often have an air of cockiness that you WANT in their professions, and can also be self centered too...so, is it a flaw or a trait? And what do we do with it?
The anger helped me work through this to the point where the anger is almost gone and acceptance is within reach. If you are angry frank, it only means you have emotional work to do. Yes, you "get it" logically as I did, but the anger you feel tells you that you don't get it emotionally yet.
From your C's discussions, I believe that you will turn that corner. The anger is the signal to do something and to look at the whole picture objectively.
Amen
As men, we have work to do to work on us. But rather than react to our anger with depression or aggression (we have never spoken but from your words I doubt that is a problem for you), we take skillful charge of the situation.
Don't know what that means, I'm not a man. It's too manly for me...
After my "hate" period when my anger peaked, I finally began to see things in a different light. I learned to set and enforce boundaries. I cannot emphasize how important that is.
healthy Boundaries clearly expressed...mandatory.
I am also now learning that her portrait on the wall is not the whole story either. The more I accept, the better I feel. Acceptance leads to compassion and compassion to forgivensss.
I still have work to do, as you can see.
Beautiful. Yes.
I warn you, it takes time to process these emotions. To see the reality around you clearly. To see the real portrait behind the people. To see that you are not the total blame and that you can reject being a doormat for others or a co-dependent.
Expect the backslides, especially when W moves back in.
You took a new road frank. Anger is telling you that you have work to do.
And you will do it. You will do fine.
Okay, I think I get it. But if someone hasn't ever really "expressed anger" before, (whatever that means and I still say it got expressed, just not in a healthy way), I hate the idea of springing on w now, at this time. It's dicey. I wish I knew Frank had the tools to know healthy ways of expressing anger and when it's well targeted. And what about the girls?
Strength and Honor.
Okay
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am NOT by any means saying that she was correct in her bad choices, but she was also pushed into this choice.
I'm ok with most of this, but I call BS on this line.
No one pushed her into anything. Just as no one pushed Frank to drink. We make our choices. Frank has to own his, and his wife sure as heck needs to own hers.
He has every right to be angry with her. And I'm sure she has some right to be angry with him too.
I think Frank has simply been getting at the fact that he has far too often suppressed his anger in situations where people have treated him wrongly. Seems to me that his Counselor is trying to help him see that he needs to FEEL what he feels and deal with it, rather than allowing it to fester and send him to alternate methods of dealing with the issues.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Go read the WAW forum, and see where I get my information from.
Lonliness, feeling ignored, being shut out, the list goes on.
In many ways, Women are much weaker then Men.
Maybe this has something to do with that whole Alpha Male thing...
That is what we want, yet we also want a Gentle Warrior (Ever read that book?)
There are many Women, even on this forum who just want some attention from their Husband's, and eventually they find someone else to meet their emotional needs.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Frank wallows, I could post my redundant, self pity, anger at self, self destructive, post again...
Frank had been asking how I got to the point of not caring, and I told him anger. Anger motivated me, anger at her, and at myself.
I did not use that anger destructively, nothing got broken, but it fueled me to move on and not fall for any of he BS lame and weak attempts to reach out to me. "Did you get that email I sent you about reading books?"
I simply used it to get past her and move along.
So when I say to Frank harness your anger, I mean it. ANGER, ladies and gents, is a tool. You can use it in a smart manner.
Frank right now is getting a ton of advice, some the same, some conflicting, and you would have to not have read Frank in a while to figure out that Frank is sitting there not knowing who to please. Cycling all the information.
Instead of typing about what he is going to do...tomorrow, but really maybe never, he needs to move in a direction, and right now ANY decision is better than sitting there not making a decision if just for his self esteem.
The answer to the question was: I deleted both emails without responding.
I talk Alpha to Frank because it is something he desperately wanted to be or to buy into. Aplha's are a pack concept, it doesn't work well in a marriage. But being a strong well balanced man is and being an alpha at least provides a part of that, some is more than none.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Your advice had been the advice I have needed to take the most. When you first told me about the anger I took it the wrong way and tried to punish W last year. So wrong.
And I know Alpha Male better than anyone. I WAS Alpha Male in the past. As one of my friends said years ago "You've always been someone who was ready to take the tiger by it's tail and pull".
Seriously. I have started 3 companies that were all successful with just my brain power. I have been dirt poor and well off.
And I have wallowed. Way way too long.
I'm trying to get a handle on focusing my anger in a good way. And expressing it.
I agree with Bworl - adultery is inexcusable. I agree with brandnewday that women and men who are weak will find their drug of choice - an affair, alcohol, whatever, to fill that empty space inside.
We all have our issues. And we all have the power to change.
told me to lose the anger. But I am glad I did not