Thanks for all your thoughts, I feel fairly calm about this whole thing at the moment, which is helping me see things much more clearly, not with my slanted "victim" vision (that hopefully DB has been helping me remove.
PnT, I agree, I think the job does define him, it has been such a huge part of his life, how can it not. I've always worried about when he is done his job--what will the kids remember of him, but that is something he seems to be thinking about now.
Floyd, thanks for pointing out the yet, I didn't even think of it, and the perspective on the bad days. Per your advice, I'm trying to create an atmosphere to come home to that is comforting.
KAW, Oh yeah, learning the hard way seems to be something that H and I must do! Just so we don't miss the lessons when we learn it that way.
Rob--thanks for the reminder on cave man theory. It is good to hear male perspectives on this.
Mockers, aren't we just so lucky to be this age and go through this crap? Would we have believed it when we were in our 20s?
DB--nice to see you!
Sue, I like the number of word theory, H definitely uses them up at work.
Pam--keep plugging away, time does seem to make this easier.
So, to go on top of all this other stuff, H gets phone call at 11pm Tuesday from work, crisis and I really haven't seem him since. He gets home around 10 and then sleeps and off to work. He is working his butt off, but is also the hero at work for getting this done. So it is boosting his ego bigtime, but after three nights of not seeing him, I'm getting tired of it, but trying to be understanding, he has no choice to do a good job, not that he wants to neglect us, just comes with the territory. So doing my best to continue to be good natured. Tomorrow we have Yankees tickets, so he'll have one day with us. Must not make any sarcastic comments, but let him know we are glad that he is spending the day with us.
I feel like we are right back down the rabbit hole again.
It is so much like last fall, the pit in my stomach returned last night and I'm truly afraid we may not make it. He worked 87 hours last week and all his emotions are tied up with work. I have done my very best to keep a postivie attitude and do the home chores without complaint or sarcasm (must be nice to come home to a clean house, clean laundry, food in the fridge, etc.). Maybe if I got some type of thank you, however it is not forthcoming. Last night we were at the computer and the cell phone rings. Not unusual, but this time it is a woman's voice and though he has many woman working with him, if it is business, he'll stay in the room and talk. He goes and leaves and goes to a differnt part of the house, talking, joking, just joy in his voice. It all comes back, maybe the OW was just on hiatus.
We talked a little last night, I told him I feel alone and unimportant. I miss hearing him say ILY. He told me a bunch of things, but wouldn't say ILY. I asked him about it and he said that he just doesn't feel that way much of the time, work gets in the way, he feels I grill him about work and I'm not sincere in asking about his day, just doing it to go through the motions. His day is such a big part of him, I know I feel left out when he won't talk, but based on the comments I get here, i thought I had been axing the grilling part, guess not enough.
I feel like I am competing with someone he interacts with at work that is not bogged down with all the chores/responsibilites of a family. I have so many doubts, do I want a marriage where my H only feels love for me every blue moon? When I call him I get coldness, yet someone from work can call and they get joy? I thought I had made changes in my attitude, being pleasant at home, not complaining about the long hours during this latest crisis, but I'm not sure it is enough and after 10 months I don't know if I have the energy to compete with an unkonwn.
Quoting Dagny: I feel like we are right back down the rabbit hole again.
I'm so sorry to hear that you're feeling "same old stuff" again....I see positives in the rest of your post, though...
Quote: We talked a little last night, I told him I feel alone and unimportant. I miss hearing him say ILY. He told me a bunch of things, but wouldn't say ILY. I asked him about it and he said that he just doesn't feel that way much of the time, work gets in the way, he feels I grill him about work and I'm not sincere in asking about his day, just doing it to go through the motions. His day is such a big part of him, I know I feel left out when he won't talk, but based on the comments I get here, i thought I had been axing the grilling part, guess not enough.
I'm sorry that h isn't able to say ILY right now...I do think it's great that you guys were able to talk about it! Is that a babystep for you all?
You may not be up for it right now ... but h has given you some clues as to what he's needing...what does he mean by "grilling" -- is he getting the sense from you that you don't trust him with something? (I'm sorry that I don't know this detail...is ow someone h works with??)
And, the statement he makes about you not being sincere when you ask about his day...do you see any truth there?
I'm wondering...did you ask HIM how things would "look" in his perfect world? In other words, what would a conversation "sound like" if you weren't grilling but were sincere??? (I'll admit that that sounds like a mighty fine balancing act...)
But, you know what? I'm hearing that you're probably not up for this right now...so, how 'bout YOU???? First off, here's a giant "you go girl" for doing ALL you do around the house!!! H doesn't thank you??? Well, I will...because YOU deserve it! What can Jackie do to give herself a giant pat on the back?
Maybe it's time to take a break from "fixing" stuff??? If you can manage feeling at odds with yourself for a while...coasting along may not be a bad thing? (Just til you get your next wind...?)
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I know how you feel about that "rabbit hole" and I'm so sorry for you. I've been on this ride since March and its tough not see down the road without the gloom and doom. Back in June, my W felt we wouldn't be together by summer's end despite all the changes I have made! ... and yet here it is at summer's end and she's made no mention to me about leaving and even tho its been rough at times (like just last week), there are also glimmers of time when I feel we will still get past all of this. (like now ... boy I have to find some time to update my thread)
Stick with your changes. I know how hard it is sometimes when you don't seem to get the recognition for your efforts, but don't let resentment set in. Remember that you change for you first and foremost. If you like who you are now seek gratification from within and you'll know your efforts are not a waste. He is still resisting your changes are real. He needs more time to be convinced. Think of his 80+ hours as a test of your resolve. He is looking to see if the old "you" will surface because of it. By letting him know you are filling your time with what you enjoy doing and not placing any pressure on him by bring up the amount of time he is working. Does his job compensate by granting additional time off at a later date? If so, maybe just mention something you would like to do together when such time is granted as something enjoyable you both can look foward to help during this trying time.
In the meantime, to get thru it ... take it day by day ... keep active and fill the time he is not there with ways that you enjoy doing. If "competing" with possible OW, helps keep focus on presenting the better you to H, then stay in competition mode. I find that works for me in helping me from lashing out at W in poor DBing form. I'm always focused on presenting myself at my best. Does it suck? Sure it does!! ... but look at it this way. It is the motivation needed to consistantly pratice those changes until they seem second nature to you.
Quoting Jackie: he feels I grill him about work and I'm not sincere in asking about his day, just doing it to go through the motions.
OK, so a 180 is needed to break that preception and it involves how you present yourself when talking about his day. I don't know about how things were and I'm sure you are doing some/if not all, of what I'm about to suggest, but you need to break the preception that you are "going thru the motions" and make it feel you are sincerely interested. When he talks about his day, look him directly in his eyes, so he can see you are listening to every word. Don't get distracted when he is talking. If something else does demand your immediate attention, ask H to pause for a moment because you don't want to miss anything he says. Validate so he knows you are tuning in and listening.
Hang in there Jackie and try to consider this just a temporary setback. Re-focus your DBing efforts and you will get thru it.
You've already gotten some good advice on your latest predicament...I'll just reinforce it here.
What can you find in yourself that might lead your H to think you're grilling him or aren't sincere about his day? Do you ask him about his day right when he walks through the door? That could be two negatives...first off, when he's just getting home from work he is probably still stressed..and when you remind him about this by asking him about his day he might feel grilled. Secondly, he is in a negative mood..so anything you might say is more likely to sound insincere.
If this is the case, when is he more relaxed? Just before bed maybe, when you're in the quiet of your own bed? I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there's a way you could change the time you ask him about his day, if you usually ask him at a stressful time for him.
As far as this person calling him...don't let that eat at you. I doubt it's an OW. If he was seeing an OW would he be so brazen as to have her calling his home when his wife was there? That just doesn't fit the pattern of an affair in the least bit. Even if he went to a different room with the call, it doesn't mean there is anything going on. I'm not suggesting you roll along blindly..you should definitely keep your eyes open, but don't let this get to you and negatively affect your interactions with him right now. As I said, if there was an OW, he'd have to have a big pair of nads to have her call his home when his W would probably answer...so let it slide.
A dream it's true
But I'd see it through
If I could be
Wasting my time with you
-Band:Phish Song:Waste
My thought here is that maybe instead of asking a lot of questions about your husbands day. When he gets home try just going up to him and give him a big hug and a kiss on the cheek and say hey how was your day. If he feels inclined to say oh well we did this and that and so forth. Sit and listen like it is very important to you. Look in his eyes. Make coments that let him know that you are listening but not trying to take over the convo.
If he says work was fine and doesn't seem to want to talk about it just drop it and let it go. Just Thought that I would throw in my 2 cents.
Sage, KAW, PnT, Rob, Lee, thank you for rallying around and the wonderful advice.
I've been thinking, why does he feel like I grill? I am sincere, that I know, but I think some of the suggestions you all give could give light to the situation. I do ask when he gets home, how are you, how was your day. I need to change this into a postive questions and be able to drop it if he doesn't want to talk. And right when he gets home is probably the worst time to start a conversation, I gotta realize he needs down time. I know I am guilty of taking over a conversation, I need to make a big effort to stop that from happening.
The OW history is what I suspect is/was a EA. Last Fall all these weird calls began and he going outside to talk. Right after the bomb I snooped one and only time on the cell and saw who called. H went through the roof. We have never mentioned this in all the time, the only thing I asked 10 months ago was about other people, he told me he had friends at work. I asked if he was sleeping with them and he said no. It just took me by surprise that this happened again, that and s6 1st day of 1st grade and holding my friend's newborn all seemed to bring up emotions. I did go outside and sit calmly and ask myself if what I wanted to say to H would help me (I was ready to confront him about everything!). I don't know if the convo was a baby step, we went to bed and everything overwhelmed me and I started crying. He asked me about it and said you might as well tell me, I won't let this go until you do. So, that is a bit different, usually he gets annoyed and defensive if I cry.
I think I may have been letting resentment slip in and have stopped doing things for me, which always does proceed a downturn in my outlook. So back on the wagon today and off to karate. Also looking for dumbells and a weight bench to get going (again) on Body for Life. And I am a competive person, so maybe I'll use the OW to my advantage and get this body in shape.
Thank you all for your insights and help. It is such an ongoing process, even though I'm learning, if I don't put that knowledge to use it seems to slip away.
Hi jackie - thank you for your post on my thread. Sorry for this rough patch for you. You are continuing to do well in recognizing things that need a little adjustment, and making the changes. How about going with your observation that your PMA takes a downturn when you stop doing things for yourself and treat yourself to something nice? How about a good CD to walk or lift your dumbells to? Don't know if you're into music much, but it seems to help me when I'm having a down time to listen to something I like. Another idea - how about a massage? I also find that I have much more resentment building up and am less patient with everyone when I stop having some time for just me.
An idea about greeting your H when he comes home.... How about saying hi and smiling, giving him a hug and kiss if that feels right, and then having something nice for him like a glass of lemonade or coffee or whatever he likes to drink ready for him. Then let him have some down time to unwind. Then you could ask him about his day a little later - maybe over dinner or after dinner when he's had some time to relax. If he really needs to be alone for a little bit maybe greet him, then say I'll be in here doing .... Dinner will be ready soon. Then go and do something for you or the boys. Could you ask him what he needs or what would help him feel most comfortable? Or would this be grilling? Just a few thoughts.
I agree with rj to keep your eyes open, but not to focus on the phone call. Keep your energy focused on you. Use the stop sign if you need it - it certainly helps me. So does saying "stop" to myself outloud! Sometimes I think I've already gone over the edge.
I can see how holding the baby could bring up those feelings. This has happened to me too in a similar situation. Hold on to your faith, though. And try to see this as a rough patch. I think the conversation and his response to your crying are baby steps.
This stinks, but you're doing a great job. ((((Jackie)))))
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Sometimes I think I've already gone over the edge.