Climbing out of the swamp

[25yearsmlc]

Uh oh...I feel a big 2 x 4 coming....First, has your c ever met your w, or seen the two of you together? Maybe I misunderstood you, but...

Why feed the anger? What does that mean?

How are you HEALING from years of stuff that has nothing to do with w? Like your childhood issues we discussed, and your professional experience (which you saw as negative but I saw differently, fyi) that are still haunting you to this day, and you can't dump it all on your w, so what's the "feeding" part thing? Haven't you been feeding negatives for a long time already, while starving the positives in your life by either not seeing them, taking them for granted or seeing them negatively, among other things?

Although I still see the w being around as an opportunity for you to model some healthy behaviors now with all the anger talk, I worry that you're just getting a new angle on victimhood.


Like now instead of writhing in self loathing, it'll be "justifiable anger" and that cannot be expressed in a healthy way if you never have done it before now. I mean, you need some TOOLS for that before you drop a ton of bricks on her head and expect something positive to come from it. In fact, from the sounds of it, you could be setting yourself and your d's up for a big fall.

Please allow me to play devils advocate okay? Um, I never met your w, But if we can't see things from the other spouses Point of View, we're doomed...so fwiw, let's try seeing it a diff way for two minutes.


Bear with me now....maybe your w thinks the following:

You were both unhappy in the M, and she knew it, even if you didn't. YOU have said there were legit issues & you could have treated her better. These problems occur to some extent in all M's, but you yourself felt that she had some points to make and you wanted to make changes. You said you "didn't
handle some things well", but you are vague as to what that means)

But in HER mind, SHE has communicated with you about her unmet needs, hinted and complained for years but you refused to listen or change....So She drops the bomb and THEN you make some changes, and want her back and promise things will be better, so she dumps OM and returns to you....but ooops, YOU DID NOT CHANGE, you fooled her, or lied to get her back, or reverted or "lost it", or whatever, and she does what she does, which is to LEAVE b/c that is what got your attention before....so again, YOU say, "Stop! Let's try again, I will change and we'll be better now"...etc so SHE COMES BACK to "work on things"...: and gives you another chance...BUT you blow it again in some (never disclosed to me) way...so she's DONE.

She leaves and finds OM ( OR finds OM and then leaves, whatever, remember we're thinking like HER for one more minute) and she wants out. She isn't pushing for the moon financially, or legally, and in fact, she takes the "moral/legal high road" and says she wants NOTHING from you financially, no alimony asked, no "half the assets, she says she won't fight for half the house, you keep the house, AND keep physical custody of the girlsf ... **

But instead of being at peace with her simple desire to move on in her life, this somehow hurts you MORE, b/c you interpret it as meaning you are so undesirable she'll pay a FEE to get rid of you in her life....this puzzles her and makes her think, "F must like being a victim...which makes me (her), the victimizer" and that is not an appealing or attractive experience for her. Time passes and you get very sad and bitter, and when you are asked if your w's happiness is a good thing, you are silent and angry at the question your d asked. So your d does think you are becoming bitter. This is not attractive to your w and is affecting your R's with the girls.

Then Your d's call her and write a note to both of you. THey send a red flare about your behavior that does NOT JUST deal with drinking, but also the depression you express to us and them, that goes with it. One or both said that she "wants her mom home to fix things" b/c in their eyes, YOU / and or "the family," are broken...


So your w chooses for WHATEVER REASON...BELIEVE ME - IN HER MIND, IT'S A NOBLE ONE, and none of us know her and none of us is telepathic, but she is coming back into the house (which you have WANTED to have happen, under your terms I guess, but somehow now it's your worst nightmare....)

Okay, back to earth. Now that I've played "her" advocate, let me say that there seem to be some points in there worth considering. Seriously considering. Frank, you said that your d hugged you for a record 4 times the other day, b/c she saw some positive changes in you. Didn't you tell the c any of that? If so, I cannot see why suddenly she is saying that you should show more anger...

Here's my other fear.
Thanks to the "new anger" you want to "feed", this won't be the opportunity for the two positives I hoped for; i.e., 1) Ideally, the restoration of the M, and or, 2) the way you are viewed by your daughters, and how you make them feel about themselves, and you, and men in general. You are the role model of men for them.

Instead, there will be one big fat battle after another that your d's will have to watch --- and YET AGAIN, in your d's eyes, it'll be your fault when your wife walks out again, if you don't handle it well.

SO before you embrace the "I"M ANGRY!" mantra too much and pound your chest,
take a deep breath and decide how you are going to ACT on this anger...and where it precisely belongs. B/C guess what? Some of it belongs to you and you alone. (Don't pout, it's that way for all of us. We all screw things up and have regrets and want to slap our own faces for making the same mistake twice, or 43 times, etc. )

Some of it belongs to people who are dead, or no longer around, like your parents, whom you felt were very deficient in raising you.

That anger does not belong to your w or d's. Naturally, many of us are faced with this; I'm was still very upset at my father long after I had moved out and married.
But that affected how I treated my h at times, and how I had certain buttons people could push without knowing, b/c they were hidden from them. Sometimes I myself couldn't understand why a comment would trigger such a hot reaction on my end. A lot of it was anger at my dad and how he treated us when we were growing up, his drinking, etc. so I worked on forgiving him and getting help for a lot of years, while getting T and going to a workshop. I did that for my life, not his. With parentally inflicted pain, especially if they are no longer around,

You really only have 2 options that are healthy, forgive them BY LETTING GO, or cling to it and blame them endlessly for things that are totally unchangeable. Talk about useless, misplaced anger...and btw, when my dad was on his deathbed and asked for forgiveness, I gave it to him, and I meant every word b/c I had prepared myself for so long. It was not an instant experience for me, UNTIL that moment when he sincerely wanted forgiveness; and for me, it was the single most holy moment in my life. Not unlike giving birth in the sense that I knew a seawave of change had occurred in my soul. A huge weight was lifted off my shoulders, and I think, his too.

You spoke of anger at your wife that you say was not expressed, but I question that statement. I think it was expressed, just not as direct anger. I don't know, but perhaps you get a bit passive aggressive or conflict avoidant (my h is really conflict avoidant and it has NOT helped us at all)

Or maybe you showed your anger by withdrawing, checking out or drinking or whatever you call it, but what were YOU talking about when you said you "didn't handle things well"? You said it. What does that mean? What would your wife say it meant?

As for anger at her for the A, (discuss the A later) and having a messy house and being a sahm, I can only say hey, I'm a slob. But staying at home for some years, was a sacrifice for ME, not just a privilege that I'm grateful for and having to say "thanks to h' for. It was work, important work to be sure, but still, I don't recall my h ever saying "thanks" to ME....it was all about how he was working and earning money, so, I have strong feelings about that. I derailed my own career b/c I thought it was important to have a parent at home and h had a commitment to the military I did not, AND he usually made more money than I did, and even if he didn't, he loves his work. But make no mistake, though I'm happy & grateful that he enabled me to do so, I'm also aware of what I gave up, and it should matter too.
Having a messy house was normal to me, with 3 kids at home. I spent my time with them, not cleaning around them. We finally hired a housekeeper when we could afford to, and reduced marital fighting by about 75%. (I don't want to be a maid. Pardon me if that sounds snobby but we lived below the poverty line for the first 6 years of our M and not much above that until 1995 at which time h finally finished all his training and we magically became a wealthy couple. I felt it was time to make life easier...it was a Godsend and I kicked myself for not doing it sooner.

So Frank, how is the house now that your w is gone and it's just you and d's? Do you do the housework now? If you have a good housekeeper, CALL ME...

As to the Car and Your Daughter...

(SIDENOTE - Frank, I never saw the actual note your d wrote, so I only know the parts you revealed before. BUT I'm intuitively (stubbornly?? ) feeling that it is still not as big a deal to me/her for the reasons you believe. I think a car is freedom and coolness to an 18 y'o for SURE....and you did promise it, so she's disappointed and that part is normal.


But suppose you take another point of view for a minute -- what if it looks like you are saying "''I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN YOU A CAR...BUT EVIL W LEFT ME, AND SO THERE IS NO MONEY, AND EVEN IF THERE WERE, I CAN'T HANDLE HER LEAVING ME, AND SO....NO CAR..... (even though you are not paying your w anything and to your d, the issues seem unrelated). You seem to be suggesting that your wife leaving is related to the money issues, but then elsewhere you say it's the economy and or, that you "didn't handle it well".

More important, I think, is that the car and your promise to get her one, symbolizes another dream your d had, and another promise /assumption/expectation of an intact family and home. that ALL children have, that got yanked out from under her for reasons beyond her control. That's a tough lesson for a kid. What about that, Frank?

{{{{and did I read somewhere that you also told her there is no money for her college? IF so, we'll talk. There are community colleges here. But the application process and essays are time consuming and REQUIRE parental involvement. I did my kids essays with them, and visited the prospective colleges. For d19, h was gone, so he missed the entire experience and never visited the colleges with them ahead of time and too bad for HIM...what a lovely experience I had and would not trade it for anything--Frankd, have YOU taken her to visit any campuses? Okay, push college aside for now, we'll touch that topic later as I and many others here have gone thru the whole shebang of helping the kids get it done, and it is time consuming but mandatory. But Frank, ask yourself something. You mentioned that you didn't finish college and if I heard right, you blamed your parents for that. (I'm not agreeing that it was their fault as you could have gone later) But if you drop the ball on this and tell her "oops, W left, or whatever, and "Can't go to college", I mean, won't it feel like YOU repeated exactly what your parents did to you, with your own d's? How is that going to feel?..

I'll help you with the college questions if you like as i just finished with two kids and my niece as well (her dad, my bil, died in September and my sister is AWOL emotionally, so my niece asked me to help her and I did and it's pretty fun if you have the right attitude).

Food for thought.
j-