I agree with you. H says I never believe anything he says and it makes me want to smack him and ask "do you blame me". Several times he had made me so mad about his lying to my face that I actually had to present proof to him about his lies and then he would just scream at me for checking his things. I guess as long as the A is going on there will always be lies.
Puppy Dog Tails-
Thanks so much for offering your advice. I can use all of it I can get at this point. I did tell H to stop lying. Over and over again and all he does is say that he is not lying and he is tired of being accused of doing so.
As I said to WaitingPatiently that is why I had to throw proof in his face. I don't present proof anymore cause I don't want him to know how I am getting my facts so I just let it be. I believe NOTHING he says anymore. Once in a million he will tell the truth.
Not sure what you mean by "agreement" that we have made. If I understand what you are asking....well there isn't one at all. When I filed it was pretty much H goes his way and I go mine.
I did really good at first. Hardly talked to him at all other than where D7 was concerned. I was over it. But then OW went away a little at a time for a while and H reeled me right back in.
I feel like I am losing him all over again even though I was never getting him back to my knowledge. Make sense? He picks at me all the time if he "thinks" I am going out with someone. He tells me a lot of things that OW is doing or going through. I just listen. Not sure what else to do.
H is still insisting that there is nothing more than friendship between he and OW and yet they tell each other "I love you" at the end of their calls. He says it is just smoke blowing. I don't know what kind of idiot he takes me for but I darn sure don't believe there is "nothing" going on.
The sad part is that D7 hears a lot of the "I love you's" between them 2 when she is with H. She asks him every now and then if they are getting married which he replies "no". She tells me that it is not right for daddy to be seeing OW when we are still married and so is OW. I just tell her "I know".
Whenever I read your post I always feel like I'm reading one of my own. My H and yours are so much alike. We are in the same situation dealing with CAKE EATERS, except my H also has a son with OW and uses that as an excuse that he is not with OW, he's only there for his son. We separated in Sept, but the same crap is going on. H now says that the separation is because I kicked him out and took back the keys but total bull crap. We keep having these arguments and I tell him that he left the marriage before he even moved out and that I did him a favor and that he said when he moved out he said he wasn't coming back. Funny thing is that H now lives with OW since she got kicked out and had no place to go and still he lies about that too. Says he lives alone. But still he says he still loves me. lol
The bottom line to all this is that I actually think things have gotten a bit better. H and I are more distant now and I kinda like it even though I miss him greatly. But I got tired of the lies and all the deceit. You know what, now that there has been some distance, I feel I AM ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MADNESS. We allow our H's to continue the lies and to continue to have the triangle love affair. Like you, I use to talk to H about OW and even that I think allowed him to think that its ok, I'm going along with his A and I'm ok with it. Puppy is right that you need to set boundaries and to take charge of this and I do too. I am working hard to do that b/c I realized the other day that H probably will not stop the A since he gets me to fills his needs and he get to fulfill her needs and feed his ego but no one is fulfilling my needs so I need to be the one to pull the plug on this. I have to do it for MYSELF. We wait for our H's to come to their senses but they probably will not b/c they don't have to. They're getting to cake eat. Sometimes I'm afraid that H will never come back and the distance will just grow but I also feel that even if I make myself unavailable to H and he choses OW then he would not have left the A anyway, so there's really nothing to lose.
So Pooh, we need to support each other and stop these cake eaters. We need to put our needs first. The other day I realized that a triangle love A can only go on when there are 3 willing participants. I know you love your H and I love my H too, but we both have to love ourselves first!! We need to be strong!!
The sad part is that D7 hears a lot of the "I love you's" between them 2 when she is with H. She asks him every now and then if they are getting married which he replies "no". She tells me that it is not right for daddy to be seeing OW when we are still married and so is OW. I just tell her "I know".
This whole mess just eats me up.
Then re-establish some boundaries. It's not too late. Start with just ONE THING, and build from there. ILYs in front of your daughter are wrong -- period. And the next time he talks about OW directly to you, cut him off and say "I no longer want to hear about her -- it's disrespectful, please stop."
Very direct, simple statements. BE CONSISTENT.
The deceit part is trickier. You have to be VERY specific, as SOON as he does it, and call him on it. "We both know what you JUST said isn't true. Please stop lying to me." LOOK HIM IN THE EYE WHEN YOU SAY the "WE BOTH KNOW" PART. He'll then ask you HOW you know, and tell him "I'm not going to tell you that. What I AM asking you is to please stop lying to me about this."
Think of a dog you're paper-training -- you have to do it IMMEDIATELY. I'm sorry for the analogy, but it works.
You are allowing yourself to see and hear things that aren't healthy for you, in my opinion. Every time it happens, you lose more self-respect, and he loses more respect (and attraction) for you.
Vicky, I couldn't have said it any better. Especially this:
Quote:
You know what, now that there has been some distance, I feel I AM ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MADNESS. We allow our H's to continue the lies and to continue to have the triangle love affair. Like you, I use to talk to H about OW and even that I think allowed him to think that its ok, I'm going along with his A and I'm ok with it.
Thanks for hanging in there with me:) I have been afraid to put a lot of distance for fear of H totally going away from me but you are right...if he chooses to be with OW he would not have left the A anyway.
I don't really see H as much as I used to. I see him at dropoff of D7 every other weekend and then 1 or 2 days a week if he picks her up from school. Mostly it is phone conversations. The dinner invitations are few and far between since OW is calling more again and I have not spent the night with him in probably 2 months now.
I never thought about the point you made on talking about OW to H. I guess he does see it as me accepting it and thinking it is ok. That is now going to stop.
Puppy-
Thank you again:)I have read a lot of your advice to others and I am glad to have your advice:) I think the first boundary I am going to set is what vicky said about NOT talking with H about OW. I am no longer going to listen to him talk about her nor am I going to ask questions about her.
I love your analogy...wish I could smack H with newspaper and make him come to his senses. If it were only that easy:) But I do get what you are saying 100%.
How do I approach him in a way to get him to stop with the ILY's in front of D7? I don't want it to be confrontational but I want to get my point across that I am serious and mean business.
The way I got him to stop taking D7 around OW was by asking him if he ever stops to think that every time he takes her around OW he is putting her in danger considering that OW's H is suspicious but doesn't know facts and could pop in on them at anytime and is not going to stop to think that there is a 7 year old sitting there if/when he decides to do something stupid to H and/or OW. That stopped him so far and he has not taken D7 around OW.
I told him that if he wants to see problems then he will by taking D7 around OW again. H does not like to feel that he is being TOLD what to do and I try not to phrase things where he feels that way so could you give me some examples on what to say?
"I think it makes D7 uncomfortable when you say "ILY" to OW in front of her. I want her to feel like she can tell me things safely, that bother her, but suffice to say I don't think that's a good idea so soon. She's been thru a lot, I'm sure you would agree. Can you respect that?"
Thanks Puppy:) I will try that one the next time it happens and see how it goes. I did real well this morning with my boundary that I am starting. H called me on my way to work and I said nothing about OW and neither did he:)
I was prepared for him to say something but did not. Of course he had not talked to her yet today either. But I will have to go pick up D7 from him shortly and that will be the test.
First, Puppy, great advice. God knows how much I need some of your advice as well. The whole thing is so hard. I am trying so hard not to be a doormat for H anymore but it isn't easy. I find myself second guessing everything I do and I hate it. Like today I called H, we've been pretty distant lately, and I missed him so I called. Then I thought oh no I called him 2 days ago as well, but didn't call at all last week :). But he was happy to hear from me and we had a good conversation, very friendly. I had pretty much stopped DB thinking that I want to just end the M, and started back fighting with H but I think I will start again by not pursuing but just being friendly to him. Hard at times when I want to just knock him over the head and to talk about the nonesense he's doing. But I know I shouldn't, even though I relapse and do at times. Anyhow, just wanted to say that Puppy I will need your advice as I try to set boundaries myself. I liked that analogy of training a dog.
Pooh, believe me when I say that I know my advice is easier said than done. Sometimes we know what we need to do but putting it into practice is so hard. I'm also working on not asking H any questions about OW as well. OW also has a H but they are separated too which I'm sure must be b/c of the A, and I sometimes so want to know why her H left but I haven't asked. I think when H and i lived together I asked all the time about her, but since he left I haven't asked crap about her. Good. But it was in hindsight that I realized that by H and I talking about OW, it was like we are all one happy family. So, I don't want to do that anymore, its so tempting though isn't it. Now I've been trying to just ask H about his son to show concern for him, but I noticed he doesn't want to talk about him much with me. Should I stop asking about him too?
So going back to setting boundaries, I'm going to work on setting some boundaries as well too. First thing is that I think I don't want to have sex with H again while he's out there. I know this is a personal decision not necessarily for you and I know its a hard decision for me b/c H and I had a good sex life. But I think, no I KNOW, I need to break the triangle and if I continue partaking, then it will continue, right? As you can tell I'm trying to convince myself too. Please pray that I stick to this. I can be such a sucker for my H and I know that has helped to carry on his A. In any event, I'm telling you this so that you know that I'm also working on setting boundaries on my end, and I know it is hard. But I do think our H has lost respect for us b/c we haven't set the boundaries. We've gone along with their program. So good luck and be strong. I'm here working at it with you.
In any event, I'm telling you this so that you know that I'm also working on setting boundaries on my end, and I know it is hard. But I do think our H has lost respect for us b/c we haven't set the boundaries.
No doubt.
I think the FIRST thing you have to decide is WHAT YOU WANT:
1) Are you DBing (working on your marriage), or
2) Are you wanting to divorce, or
3) Are you wanting the arrangement largely the way it is now (limbo)?
That might sound like a stupid question, and I need to find someone who posted it MUCH smarter on someone else's thread recently (maybe it was Saffie?), but the distinctions DO matter.
Your husband thinks it's #3, because that's what you've allowed him to do. You'll almost certainly claim your goal is #1, because that's the "correct" answer. But your actions -- at least from your husband's point of view -- are almost certainly #3.
I am also a sucker with H when it comes to sex...partly because we too had a great sex life and partly to be close to him. I informed him the other day though that once the D is final there will be no more sex with me. I told him that D is closing a chapter in my life and at that time I will move on.
He basically told me that he could convince me otherwise when it comes to sex. Well I have news for him...NOT going to happen.
My boundary now has to start tomorrow....I just blew it for today.
I went by to pick up D7 and things started out ok. We both got our papers to file taxes and plan to file together. So we talked about that first. Getting things together,when we can file,etc.
Well here is something I don't think I have posted yet. H lost his job Dec 2nd. Not a HUGE deal because he was doing his profession on the side and made more money that way than at his job anyway. BUT...he lost his job because he was spending too much time on the phone (yes with OW). He thinks they just wanted to get rid of him (denial) but that is not the case. He was the best they had. Sent him to school for all kinds of advancement and he had been moved up and had been there for 8 years. He was warned before about the calls.
So...our S papers state that H is to keep D7 on insurance. He is responsible for that. Well he loses job,loses insurance. I have been reminding him repeatedly to check out this insurance online here locally for her. He kept saying he would. Never did. Yesterday morning he told me that was his TOP priority for the day as he had nothing else to do.
I forgot to ask him about it yesterday so I asked today while I was there. He said he had not had a chance to do it yet. I asked why. He said he did not know but he would get on it today. About that time D7 comes around the corner and tells me that daddy talked to OW the whole time he was picking her up and all the way home.Then his phone starts ringing and it is none other than OW. Well that made my head get hot and I let loose.
Basically told him that I know the reason he did not get the insurance handled was because he was too busy talking to OW (did not give up how I knew) and of course he denied that. Asked him is there ever a time when he is with D7 that he gets to spend QUALITY time with D7 without OW calling. He said yes all the time. I called him a lier (that is the nicer version of what I actually called him). Told him that we both know that is a lie. He said "whatever" and told me to leave.
I told him that if he does not give me a date by the end of the week (tomorrow) as to when he wants to file taxes that I am going to file by myself and get it done.
Our S papers state that I am the one to claim D7 therefore I do not have to wait for him. I can file without him. I told him to e-mail me the results of the insurance hunting and DO NOT CALL MY PHONE.
"Sigh".....ok i feel a little better now. Sorry this is so long but I had to vent. I am sure I left something out but I will think of it later. How am I going to stay sane???????
