My worst fears confirmed! Wife having EA/PA...

[25yearsmlc]

Jeff, (and PT)

I think we ALL believe the LBSer has to set and enforce some type of healthy boundary, especially in these situations. Every person does, even the WAS, should they return. No matter what other "approach" is taken, you have to be healthy and maintain some dignity, strength, and self respect (self respect is often both haunted & balanced by its' alter ego, pridefulness).

However, with all due respect for your experience PT, I think you do a disservice to the DB approach by adamantly opposing it here, which I think is misplaced, and wording it the patronizing way you do. "Cheaters always lie," and statements like that, project a "one size fits all" rigidity, & that bothers me. Of course You are entitled to your opinion and expressing it. But your tone/wording can seem smug, fyi.

In any event, someone here referred to "integrity" and Jeff, I think that's what we all mean. No matter where you fall on the spectrum, of full on snoop Patrol, to the way PT suggests DB supports, at the end of the day, we each have to look within and ask ourselves if we are alright with our choices.

For instance, whether to ML with our WASs when they come in for a landing at the home base, (or are they trying to reconcile???), or whether to slam the door in their face, DEPENDS. How do you know which choice is "right"? (IMO There really are situations that could call for either one of those responses).

We pray. And we look in our hearts and souls and we ask OURSELVES, "am I doing this out of love? Am I doing this out of need? Am I coming from a place in my heart where God dwells, or am I using Him as an excuse to punish, under the guise of 'teaching WAS a lesson' or 'setting limits'---(another way of 'teaching a lesson)' and that is not coming from a place of love...it's manipulating and punitive and judgemental and the LBSer with control/critical mindsets uses the A as their justification for ramping up their controlling behaviors.

I asked both my DB coach and my pro-M therapist (pro-M t's can be hard to find, let's face it) about this. And they both said that these questions for the struggling believer are THE questions. It's hard enough to understand our own decisions (let alone mind reading the WAS) and where they are based within us, but when is it our hurting ego that claims the "right" to make demands, or the loving spouse determined to move forward with a contrite & willing partner. I agree. It's tough. That is your struggle. But you struck a chord in my memory when you discussed "controlling" factors. That is a word thrown around a lot, mocked, misused, etc.

RE; CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR OR LBSers.....Yes, WAS's hurl that label out & it gets attached to their LBSers to justify their A's. That is wrong, and it's sad and pathetic to use the allegation as an excuse for some very bad choices. But when we dismiss all those statements as lies, we obscure something else and lose an opportunity we desparately need to see.

We obscure the fact that there are spouses who are way too controlling and obsessive and judgemental. They contribute mightily to the A, but when the A happens, the flaws in the LBSer get shoved aside b/c the focus becomes exclusively about the A, whether it continues, what exactly happened, EA vs PA, etc etc (yet another way of controlling and judging the WAS and keeping the cycle going).

Sorry to say this, but when surveyed 5 years post divorce, there are WAS who report that they are glad they divorced. (Not a big majority, but a lot). Of those who are happier without their ex's, (and excluding domestic violence) there are two reasons cited the most: 1) they felt critisized/judged, and or 2) controlled/bossed around, so if a WAS has an A and says that they felt critisized or bossed around, it does not justify the A. But if the LBSer ignores the comments, too enmeshed in their righteous indignation and anger, they'll miss a real opportunity for growth, with or without a reconciliation.

For the record, I have not had an A and as far as I know, neither has my h. I don't have a chip on my shoulder or an agenda. In almost 28 years of M, while surrounded by men working in a 'man's field' with a h who chose to put his career and MLC ahead of his family for decades, an A did cross my mind. I understand how people rationalize, definitely. But I thought it out, foresaw the likely outcomes and decided it was sooo not worth it. I could not break my h's heart or see my kids see me, the way they would. I couldn't reconcile my self image of being a moral person, with even thinking about an A. But I admit I did ponder it.

And lest you judge too harshly let me say that it had value in the sense that the "equation" one does to figure out why you should not have an A, gets easier & faster with time, so it just doesn't come up much after some time. It's like I've mentally "been there, done that." No need to go down that cheeseless tunnel.

Two of my sister's h's had A's (both h's filed for divorces) and I saw how much pain it caused. Never wish that on anyone. FWIW Neither sister was critical or controlling. (ON the contrary). Hate to say, but One bil seems happier, he married the ow 13 years ago and is still m and they have a kid. The other bil, is not a happy man. When he was m to my sister, He was critical, controlling and selfish. My older sister was an angel to him. He fiinally remarried ow #3, someone he describes as "high maintenance", and apologized to my sister for "f------ up" and that he now "gets it", etc.

My sister remarried too. Although she'd never want to have her kids go thru the crap she and they went thru with the div, she does say her exh did her a favor. Now that she's "in a M where it is the actual priority, she says she'd never go back to what she and exh had", Karma I guess.

Jeff, All I'm trying to say is that I think you're using the remote to snoop, I guess. Here's my "female" reaction to that: revulsion. Sorry if that offends. Even if you find an A, maybe one that she's still struggling with, how does that make you "right"? Or, "righter"?

If you KNOW any continued contact with OM, will force you to file for a divorce without question, I can see that such a discovery will speed that up. That's the only "value" I can find in this conduct.

For the life of me, I don't understand spending the enormous & painful energy on that, instead of examining your heart and soul for things you can do something about. If she said you are the jealous obsessive type, or controlling, then you are proving she is right. Are you validating her comments. Giving her ammo? God I hope not. Well, enough said. Good luck,
j-