Tal, it is so encouraging to read of your progress. You and Wolfie appear to be moving out of the shadows quickly now.
I'm thinking that it must feel like low, grey, snow clouds breaking up after a very long winter. The sun is reclaiming the sky.
------------------------------------------- You'd asked me for suggestions on how you might link a photo of yourself here on the bb.
Well it dawned on me in the wee hours last night. You can email me your picture and I'll load it onto my "blog". I would like very much to have photo's of my friends there along with their thoughts and comments (if they so choose). I haven't done much with my site, so I've got plenty of room.
However, if you prefer, I can store it on a restricted page. It's up to you.
You'll find my email address in my profile.
Jeannine
P.S. If any of my other buddies here want to link a photo to this bb but don't have a site of their own, contact me and I'll try to do the same for you.
Pam, don't ever worry about being a bummer on my thread! I can't tell you enough how in awe I am with your strength and ability to keep up the PMA (most of the time).
You've had, in some ways, a harder time than I have. With us, as soon as OW was known to me he ended it. You have far more of a chess game going on, but you are going a great job of stratagy! Anyway...I really feel for you, even though your H would probably call that "CO". Argh, that ticked me off a bit--the overuse of the "co" thing he did to you. What I saw in it was that you have a kind and generous spirit! Who can't use a little kindness from time-to-time?
Anyway..always here for you..keep your chin & PMA up no matter what the alien man does!
Yes, Jeannine, it does feel like real progress. We've been stuck in a cycle for nearly a decade that kept almost ANY issue from now being resolved! I haven't sat down and written down any specific goals, but having room in the relationship to even be able to talk about resolving any issue is a big one!
Thanks for the offer re the picture. I'll try it for awhile--I might get tired of seeing my face plastered all around. I found a pic I like--but I've got to be honest, it's 3 years old. I'm just not very photogenic, but every once in awhile someone gets a good picture of me.
Thanks Tal for the uplifting words!!! Well, when H lived here and he knew I always brought water to my classes for the "forgotten"--he always thought that was such a nice thing for me to do--so now he wants to portray it in a way that makes him feel better about himself--maybe using my water for someone in class would have made him feel like the inferior instructor!!! who knows, I'm over it now--he was the jerk and I know my students appreciate that I have the water with me. In fact, I have had some come up to me and pay $1 for the water because they wouldn't have it any other way!!! I always tell people--just bring an extra bottle next time and "rescue" someone else. I don't want the money or a replacement bottle!
Yes, I do feel my road is a tough one to travel since the A is still going on---!!!! I'm really not sure why it is going on--to spend so little time together--but then it never gets stale!!!! Oh well!!! Had a good day today--but already went into it on my thread!! Thanks again!
all the more reason not to take anything he says to heart. When in the realms of lala land, it's soooooo predictable to critisize us, even demonize us to a degree. Next time you wonder if he's got any feelings of guilt at all, count up the number of times he's said something crappy to you. It's guilt turned sideways!
Since Wolfie says I have to spell things out for him, and we are supposed to be working on writing down our "bottom lines & boundaries"...
I'm going to get the book I've heard a lot of people here reference: Not Just Friends because it sounds like it's right-on-point.
Right now I'm laughing a bit at my little overachiever-self. Give me a homework project and I'll turn it into a Masters Thesis, LOLOL!
AND...to address the issue about him being vulnerable because he's rather naive about women in the first place: I'm going to let him in on some of the thinking involved in OW-land. (I'm going to have to put myself in OW mentality to do this--UGH!), but the way I see it, if I were made of that cloth, I'd be able to set my sights on a guy and, with the right techniques, I'd have a good chance at success.
I'd listen, listen, listen, ask questions and listen some more. I'd do subtle things to support and encourage any "poor me" stuff I heard from the guy. I'd subtely ask questions and listen some more...making mental note of EVERY area of every area of vulnerability I heard and then I'd very subtely start to exploit those vulnerabilities.
That's just the start, and I'm going to get very specific with Wolfie about the ways he's an open book to someone like that.
Am I giving anyone the shivers? I'm giving myself a few, but if we are going to consider this an exercise in strengthening our R against a common enemy (quoting the MC) then I believe that the first element of stratagy that any decent warrior from Crazy Horse to Patton would use is KNOW YOUR ENEMY!
Maybe I should even start a new thread so you all can give me your input on the subject, enit? What do you all think?
I'd NEVER given that a thought...how DREADFULLY easy it would actually be to manipulate some unhappy guy that way!!!
Actually, Tal, you made me feel BETTER about CJ's A's, as this CLEARLY was what the OW were doing! CJ's first reason for falling in love with them? "They listened to me". UGH!
Both of these OW had had OTHER A's, during which no doubt they honed these skills. ...Now this ISN'T letting CJ off the hook, not at ALL, but...it makes it some easier to see how someone kind of naieve (yeah, he can be) could be bowled over by such attention.
Especially with me back here being pissed off about all and sundry!
Good stuff, Tal, you always make me think!
Shiny
P.S. check out newbie Optimist...her sitch is similar in that OW works with her H, looking for advice on how to address the issue...Thanks!
Thanks for the help, Shiny. I just finished reading Tal's threads and her H and mine could be clones. Unfortunately the certified Paralegal in the case is the OW, not me. And she is a master manipulator!
Anyway, my H is also an extreme conflict avoider, especially of any conflict which involves women (childhood experiences and the like), and he also works in the medical field, where opportunities are abundant. And it was also lack of communication that was our downfall: we both resented and withdraw. I stupidly poured into my career and accepted, not engineered, a one year commuter-couple situation that was our downfall. Shows what an ass an intelligent woman can be: can you guys think I was actually relieved he was moving and would not be there so I could do my work?!!!!
The OW is older than my H by 7 years and than me by 13. She is divorced (her H made her leave town and changed the locks on her, which now makes me wonder what was he scared of), and depends economically on my H. She is not going to let go of the social and economic improvement her brings to her. And she mothers and bosses him around.
My SIL's significant other thinks my H is unconsciously repeating the situation at his childhood home with his mother (whom he hated) and his grandmother (whom he adored) openly competing for the children's love and affection. My SIL (his only sister) just thinks he is a jerk, too weak to fight for us and kick the OW's old ass.
To add insult to injury, my H has this big complex about my family (very, very close and rather uppity. Well, they are not but can look like that to someone who feels socially inferior) and I make a lot more money than he does (about 5x). He has told me many times: you don't need me (which has come in handy, because many times in the last 5 years I have felt very much as a married single mother).
I am sorry if I am highjacking your thread, Tal, but I am in very great need of your reknowned Indian wisdom. Do you have any insights?
Pleeeease....
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Renowned Indian wisdom? Har har, how about "don't let your pony loose in the garden?"
Just kidding, Optimist! I wish I DID have some major bits of wisdom to dispense that would help you.
Since borrowing my Tourettes things won't work in your sitch, I know in your place I'd definately be scheming to find a way to get rid of the XOW at your H's work. Any way you can manage to get her fired? Ever thought about contacting her X and having a little info gathering conversation?
That's MY machiavelian side coming out.
P.S. Is there any way you can get your H into with you? Healing after these things is hard enough WITH that help, I wouldn't be doing so well without MC help.
Yes, I am scheming to get her fired, and I have even found her a temporary replacement (one of my own employees) but my H would have to do the firing and so far he has resisted... He does not say no: he agrees that she will be gone in '2 weeks' and the 2 weeks never come. That is one of the things that make me unsure about the future of our sitch. I feel he is still in her power, and I do not know why. Last time I told him how I felt (when we were still going to a C and we discussed it with her) he said that he was afraid of 'losing me and his job, everything'. She controls the whole office and all the finances. I am nearly at my rope's end. I really sometimes think that kicking him out again would be better than living with this uncertainty...
Just yesterday he went to work and when he comes back the passenger seat in his car is in a different position than it was Thu when we went to the movies. I am going beserk second guessing...
I cannot contact her H because some of her kids live there. Other 2 work for my H part time. She stays at the house when she goes back to see them. It would be shooting myself in the foot.
As to the MC: initially we went to 2 and my H lied to both about the EA. We quit the last in May when I discovered the real situation and filed for D. Then we started going to another for tips on how to deal with our D and she ended up doing crisis counselling for both individually. She felt split and had a session with both (the one I alluded to) in which she offered to see only one of us and refer both to a trusty MC. My H asked to continue with her (I agreed because he really needed the C) but he only went to one more session and quit. He lied to me at that point about going to she her but I found out when she sent her bill. My H does things like that: quite stupid lies instead of fessing up to things he thinks I may not like... I never made the appointment with the MC because I thought it would be a waste of time and money until he made a commitment to me and to truth.
Now that he has moved back in, things go very smoothly and he shows lots of little details (see my thread) but he never talks about his work and I am totally in the dark about the situation there. If I bring it up he says he only goes in, does his work and leaves as soon as he can. I wonder whether he moved in too soon. Should I have held out until he dropped her?
As you can see I am feeling rather down today. Not exactly optimistic. I asked him this morning to clear some time in his schedule this week so that we can talk, and he was rather unhappy about it.
Sorry to spill my guts in you thread.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
...Now this ISN'T letting CJ off the hook, not at ALL, but...it makes it some easier to see how someone kind of naieve (yeah, he can be) could be bowled over by such attention.
