Tal, whatever you did, however you put that to him, it worked! He didn't get defensive, he didn't give you his patend (sp?) response, and he HEARD that he hadn't said those things to you. He also made it clear that he IS grateful for you not curbing him
I agree with Shiny, Tal. H is patterning his responses to be different, a 180 if you will--that is certainly good!!! That curiosity stuff always gets the better of us!! I'd like to think that someday H will say he was glad I didn't give in or give up on us, as I patiently await his return. I'm so happy for you Tal-you guys are really doing well with your communication and working through things!!! Keep up the good work!!!
Yeah, well he's a very lineal-thinking kind of guy--so I feel like I sometimes have to put the dots up on the board for him to play connect-the-dots.
I forgot to mention that there was some tension a few times this weekend.
1. The sink clogged up so a bunch of dishes piled up in the kitchen (it's S16's job to do the kitchen, but I have to really keep on him about it). We got some draino, and S16 started doing the dishwasher loads, but it was slow going. The next morning, I heard Wolfie down in the kitchen banging things around. I got up to get coffee and saw that he was cleaning the kitchen in a pi$$ed-off way (sortof like the way I clean when I have a bad case of PMS).
He was ranting about how there was so much gunk on the counters and it didn't look like the kitchen had been cleaned in a month and that the place was a breeding ground for botchulism, bacteria, fungus, mice and rats.
I got very uncomfortable about his rant because: 1. He was exaggerating - it was only 3 days accumulation and only because the dishwasher couldn't be used. 2. He expects the place to look like the pictures in the Pottery Barn catalog, but we live with 3 teenagers. 3. In the past, instead of getting up and cleaning something if it was bothering him, he'd just look disgusted and leave. This time, he was actually cleaning, but was all po'd about it. 4. I am (truth be told) intimidated by his anger/temper.
Anyway...I reminded him for the 100th time that it won't be all that long before the kids are off on their own. The house will be clean then, but we'll miss the kids.
When S16 got up, I told him, "You'd better work on the kitchen, cuz your dad is having a cow about how messy it is".
S16 says, "I just deep-cleaned 3 days ago, but the sink clogged up so I couldn't do the dishes".
"See", I tell Wolfie, "only 3 days--not a month".
I think part of the uncomfortable feeling I had was that I know all of this is normal family stuff, but it's all part of the kinds of things that Wolfie cited as reasons to want to have his own place for awhile.
A big part of me wanted to go off on him about how I have felt all of these years about working full time (even more hours per week than him) then spend all of my free-time scrubbing & decluttering the house and riding herd on the kids so HE would feel more at ease!
I didn't go off on him. We've already had numerous talks about how he needs to help more around the house and relax a bit about the whole subject. At least he WAS cleaning...even if it was PMS cleaning, right?
Ok...note to self: stop placing so much emphasis in what H SAYS and what I'd like to HEAR. He's a man. He's less verbal than I am. What am I being told in NONVERBAL ways?
1. He's spending nearly ever free minute with me when he's not working or sleeping. 2. His body language and the way he smiles at me tells me that he's feeling happy and content in a way that I haven't really seen for years. 3. He brings me small, considerate gifts and does small considerate things for me. 4. There is MUCH more physical affection/inimacy than in the past few years. 5. He may not SAY he scared himself by almost losing me, and is grateful that I didn't give up on him, but sometimes he wraps himself around me and holds me for a long time and I think he's expressing all of that without words.
I have to keep my perspective on the 5LL concept and remember that gender does definatly play a part.
If I'm looking for what I'd like to hear, I will often be dissappointed. If I'm looking for all the ways that I'm told things in a nonverbal way, there is plenty to see.
Anyway, yes--Pam, his temper does intimidate me even though I have one of my own. Wolfie is Viet Nam vet & Desert Storm vet, did the Navy Seal thing for awhile and is also a big guy--6'3" and about 250 lbs.
I was physically and emotionally abused in childhood and in my first marraige.
Wolfie admits to using his temper to control me, i.e. slamming doors, punching walls, yelling. It's never anything extreme, just enough of a "back off" signal to stop me in my tracks.
Funny though, I've never actually been afraid that he'd ever hit me, no matter how mad he is. Still, there is the slightest insinuation of that threat (as he pointed out to me recently).
We both know he never would lay a hand to me as it would be the LAST thing he'd ever do....
Quote: Yes, I admit it...I want the "I can't believe you put up with all my BS for the last year, you were SO patient with me. I am SO grateful that you didn't give up on me and fought for our R, and I'd rather roll over and die than ever risk loosing you again!"
"dream speech....I had to laugh because I've 'imagined' a similar speech from my H....glad I haven't been holding my breath waiting to hear it though
I so enjoy your posts, the ups and the vents...they help remind me that I'M NORMAL. Thanks, T2
Good stuff Tal--very important to look at all the LL's!! I'm so happy for you--keep things in perspective and keep doing what you're doing-it is working!!! I know about tempers too, my H can get very loud when provoked and I know how to push those buttons very well--did it last night without really trying and then when he gets loud, it's best to leave him alone--but I'm a talker and always want to talk it out--when H called today to apologize (see my thread)--in his message he reminded me of how he gets when he's angry and that I should know by now to back off and let him cool off. Wouldn't that be a huge 180 for me next time if I actually do that!!! I too have never been frightened that he will hurt me physically with this anger, but it is still a bit intimidating nonetheless...I don't like confrontation and that is the bottom line for me. Hang in there-everything in your sitch sounds really good!
I'm glad he's recognized that what he does is a form of bullying and definately doesn't want to do that.
I know, from my side of things...I do push his buttons when I can see he's reached a state beyond hearing me when the fight or flight instinct is kicking in.
What we've agreed on (in principal, so far) is that we need to recognize and stop when it gets to that point. An agreement can be made for a cool down time to come back and talk about things when we calm down.
