Hi Tal, I'm so happy to see a happy ending in the works for you..everything is sounding so good!!!! I admire your tenacity and your ability to DB your way back to a better M with your H!!! Good going!
Unfortunately, looks like I won't be making it to this forum with my own thread, short of some miracle--but not even sure I want that--think I'll be heading to the "surviving the big D" forum next...I made appt for mediation today to start the D process--I just don't see any hope...you were good at seeing the hope before, but try as I might, can't seem to get anywhere with H so it is time to let go with the intention of letting go for good and come what may...wrote more on my thread--sorry to hijack yours! I seem to get carried away!
I need to vent here, because I'm feeling a bit frustrated.
We went to MC last night. We told her about our conversations after watching the last of the videos she gave us. H described our penchant for debating (i.e. the prosecutor & defense attorney plea bargain style).
We explained what we had figured out about where and how we had started to go haywire: H said he thought that we had each become convinced that the other didn't love or even like us anymore, and we had become stagnant, appearing stable from the outside, but not really ok. His solution for avoiding a repeat in the future was a concerted effort to have activities that we plan to do together.
I said that my view of things was that planned activities were fine, but that doing things together and enjoying each other's company had never been a real problem. I felt that we had not been stagnant, as there had been a great deal going on under the surface. We had each been convinced that the other was going to end the relationship, and had begun shutting down emotionally. It was too frightening to talk about, because both of our core issues were being triggered: H's fear of rejection and abandonment, my fear of betrayal and abandonment. H agreed with that and said that we'd both known that the other had those issues, but had been unaware how deep those core issues really went. I felt like we needed to continue to schedule R talks. MC agreed and said that for the really scary stuff, we should right it down and read it to the other.
MC wanted feedback on where we felt we were at with our C, and if there was anything we wanted to do differently. We said we'd talk about it and tell her next time.
So we went out to dinner afterwards and H said he'd like to get some brutally honest objective feedback from MC, as if she were describing us and our interactions to another therapist. He likes it when C's have a confrontational, "call him on BS" style.
He also commented that he thinks he out-talks me and talks over me during our sessions. I said I can take care of myself, so if I felt like I needed more time to talk, I'd say so.
Anyway, all good stuff during MC session and talking afterward...until I asked how it was going with preparing to "wean himself off solitude" to move back home. He said he's been going through stuff, deciding what to keep and what to throw away (I've been hearing that for several weeks). He said he thought he'd start moving his houseplants to our house and would move back in "sometime in September".
Now, when we last discussed this issue, he'd said October, I said I wanted him to meet me half-way and I wanted him to be home by the time our youngest starts back to High School (Sept. 2nd). H had agreed to that compromise. I told him that "Sometime in September" was being vauge. H said, yes, he knew he was being vauge.
LL gave me a good 2X4 awhile back about not pressing on this issue so that I knew that H was really ready when he did move back in, so I haven't been pushing.
Problem is, I thought we'd made an agreement, and now H is renigging on that agreement. That has been a major frustration for me all along in our R. I don't ask him to make agreements or promises unless it's something I take very seriously. H has had a pattern of making agreements with me, then not living up to his end. Sometimes he'll do part of what he said he'd do, but often not in the timeframe that is needed. We've had arguments in the past because I've said I feel like we need to write our agreements down on paper, have them notarized and stick them up on the fridge (I was only being half-sarcastic).
H goes into a tizzy when I say that and starts ranting about how this is a relationship, not a contract, and he wants a lawyer, dammit.
His not honoring our agreement is a big deal to me, because it really causes me to distrust his word, reminds me that after a major betrayal (having an A) he's got some credibility issues with me, and feels like I'm being discounted, taken for granted, and disrespected.
I didn't say much about this last night, becuse I was feeling angry, and he's SO hypersensitive about anything critical that I didn't want to put him on the defensive.
Any suggestions on a way I can bring up this subject without it becoming a big blow-up?
Quoting talitsa: Any suggestions on a way I can bring up this subject without it becoming a big blow-up?
Talitsa --
It seems to me (from an outsider's perspective) that you guys have been doing a great job of talking about the tough stuff in an even keeled manner.
You have a good handle on WHY this has made you feel a particular way:
Quote: His not honoring our agreement is a big deal to me, because it really causes me to distrust his word, reminds me that after a major betrayal (having an A) he's got some credibility issues with me, and feels like I'm being discounted, taken for granted, and disrespected.
I suspect that h might also be able to articulate his thoughts around it, too...so...not to play JJ or anything but "what's different about the times when you are able to talk about stuff and it goes well?"
Timing? It's not a reaction? (ie, seems great that you guys didn't pursue it last night after all that MC + you feeling upset + him feeling defensive,etc) After you've done something fun together? etc....
Would it work to discuss it in MC?
Sage (not much help but in your corner!!!)
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I think that I'll try doing something that the MC was saying about writing thing down and giving it to the other person. I will tell him that it will not be easy to read, so he can pick his own time to read it & respond when he's had time to think about it. That way I won't be blindsiding him and hopefully will avert him going into fight or flight mode!
I won't push any particular issue (ask him to live up to our agreement about timing of when he moves back in, but I will use it as an example of what I see as a dysfunctional pattern. That way, he can take his own clues, and come to his own conclusions.
This is what I came up with. I hope it makes sense:
I am writing this down so you can read it in your own time. I don’t want to bring it up face-to-face because I don’t want you to feel blind-sided and go into “fight or flight” mode. I want to discuss something that I am fairly emotional about, and I don’t want to run the risk of starting a big argument.
It is something, though, that I feel deserves to be really looked at.
You stated to me in your letter that you felt you had committed a gross betrayal of my trust, and that it was important to you to regain my trust. Along those lines, I want to point out something that I have often perceived as a pattern that has led to distrust on my part.
I don’t push an issue–ask for a compromise or an agreement from you–unless it is something I feel very strongly about. I pick my "battles" carefully.
I have often thought that we had made an agreement, but then felt that you didn’t live up to your word. Sometimes it seems that you will go part of the way, but not in the way we had agreed on or in the timeframe agreed on.
A recent example of what I am talking about is that you had said you would like to move back home in October. I said I wanted to compromise and wanted you to meet me half-way by agreeing to do it before (youngest son) started back to school on Sept. 2nd. I thought that we had succeeded in negotiating and compromising, but now I hear you saying things that lead me to believe you are dragging your feet, being vague, and not even recognizing that we did, in fact come to an agreement.
I am using this example because it is the most recent of what I feel has been a pattern over time. It is something that has caused a lot of resentment and mistrust on my part. I have sometimes felt that you make agreements and promises that you don’t abide by, or maybe never intended to. Maybe you intend to at the time, but something comes up or you change your mind. The problem is that you don’t discuss it with me–just leave me to depend on your word then wonder what the hell happened to what we had agreed on.
Seeing a pattern has made me reluctant to bring things up that are important to me because I feel even worse if you don’t carry through after we have negotiated and compromised. It also makes me feel that you just agree to things to “shut me up” and that you don’t take me seriously. It makes me feel discounted and disrespected. It makes me feel that it is not important for you to feel that you have any credibility with me. It makes me feel that you are being dishonest with me. Sometimes I feel like I want us to write down what we’ve agreed to, because I don’t want you to act like no agreement ever occurred or you don’t expect to be held to what you said.
I am not going to minimize that trust is a big issue between us right now. There has been a major breach of my trust and broken agreements and promises. In order to do the work we need to do, credibility and trust is important.
To that end, I am asking you to really think about what I feel has been a pattern and be really honest with yourself and me about it, and come to your own conclusions. I’m not going to try to renegotiate a timeframe for your moving back in, but I would like you to recognize that we did agree to something and now you are acting outside of that. If it is important to you to have me trust and depend on you, it is important that you act trustworthy and dependable.
Quote: We do both spend a lot of time debating and trying to convince. Not so much "I'm right and you are wrong", but "my way is more right than yours".
He said that this led to a lot of power struggles between us, but also seemed to serve to keep interest and excitement in our R. Tally, consider using the "LOVE BANK" & "MUTUAL CONSENT" concepts, I believe they will help in your sith.
Quote: This is what I came up with. I hope it makes sense:
I am writing this down so you can read it in your own time. I don’t want to bring it up face-to-face because I don’t want you to feel blind-sided and go into “fight or flight” mode. I want to discuss something that I am fairly emotional about, and I don’t want to run the risk of starting a big argument. Tal, TOO LONG,and is attacking him, try agin, I don't read much loving in the letter. Perhaps these are issues that could be handled in short emails, that way you have proof of what he agrees to, and he knows he did agree to it.
I hate to say it, sometime women take leaps of logic, and the guy did not know he agreed to it.
