The unfaithful wife...that's me..

[Mellenmack]

No, J, I completely agree with you. I told him a long time ago (October or November, maybe December, can't remember) that I wanted the M to work (work being the key word). That I wanted a marriage and a partnership, not what we had. If we always do what we always did, we'll always get what we always got. I believe that. So when he would ask about why should this time be different, I told him, "Why would you want the same marriage?" Well, duh, cause he wants to control me and I want to control his drinking.

I won't go back to the way things were. I know that for sure. This may be another kink in his plan. He knows I won't go back to what it was. I won't go back to the drinking and feeling like what I want doesn't matter and that I have to play along with his "lead role" in our lives. So if he wants a different marriage, a better marriage, a partnership, then yes, by all means, I am willing to try again. But if not, then I have no trouble moving forward alone. I hate it, because I think it could be a good marriage. But if he won't try then it doesn't really matter. That's the brain talking. All the heart does is cry. Stupid heart. lol.

Positives things he has done for me:
1. He never made or expected me to work. I was free to stay home with the kids if I wanted a break or when I had D4 or when we moved. A lot of women don't have that luxury. Many of them just can't afford it, and others have an H who expects them to work. I enjoy working, but I have also appreciated the times to stay with the kids especially when they were little.
2. He never told me I couldn't do something. He encouraged me going to school, although he did at times make things a little difficult to go because he couldn't always take care of the kids when I needed him to.
3. He never told me how to spend or not spend money. We didn't have an overabundance, but we always had enough that I didn't really want for anything. Of course, neither did he.
4. For the last 3 years he has helped around the house more and spent more time at home.

Not so great things:
1. He did drink the first 10 years away. He puked down the side of the bed. He cr@pped on the floor when he was puking so hard. He left it for me to find the next day. When I went to visit him in Germany for a week, he puked all over the bathroom he shared with the guy next door so bad that the dude was really po'd. Don't blame the dude at all. I didn't go in there, but I imagine it was a total mess. He told me he hadn't been that drunk the whole time he'd been there prior to my arrival. In my mind, it was one more round of "he has to drink to be able to put up with me."
2. he resents having the kids. he loves them dearly, but he wasn't ready for either one of them.
3. he expects me to just accept any military move he wants to make or not make. he was ready to leave minot, put in for a career change and got it. we got here and he wants to stay, so we have. it's not up to me to put in for orders or we'd have been gone years ago. i loved our time overseas and he hated it. he refuses to even consider going back.
4. he is spoiled. his parents gave him everything he ever wanted growing up. if he was into skateboarding, he got the best board, the best ramp, the best pads, the best of the whole deal. in my family, for christmas or birthdays, we got a few requests, but certainly not lock, stock, and barrel. he is one of these "entitled" people.
5. his parents spent a lot of time having drinking parties while he was little. the boys remember having the parties when they were younger and everyone being there. they don't see anything wrong with it.
6. he started looking for a new truck before he left last fall (2007). said he realized how much money he could save if he went from gas to diesel....and i was like really? have you checked the price of diesel?? "but it gets better gas mileage". yeah, but you have 17 inch tires and a 4 inch lift on that truck. you'd prolly get better mileage if you'd put it back to factory. "no, it's not that much of a difference."
7. i looked and looked for a new suv for me to upgrade to from my dodge neon. decided on hyundai santa fe. looked for "the one" for six months. he wasn't the least bit interested in it when i found it. so I took D4 who was then 4 months old, friend across the street, her D, who was 1 at the time, down to the dealership 1.5 hours away and did it all myself. I am resentful of that.
8. chooses irresponsible friends, just like him. has a few "normal" friends, but most are "entitled" just like him, his brother included.

i'm giving up now. it's late and i'm tired. drained actually.

he finally texts that he is sorry for yelling and that he is sorry for the drinking. he thinks that since he quit, all the damage should just be fixed and gone. except that he has started drinking again, although possibly not as much as before, and it's only time til the mess prolly starts again. make that one number 9 that he has started drinking again.

i just told him that i am sorry, too, but that i need the separation, that it's not fair to either of us. i can't help but have hope, and then i get upset when it's not true and then we argue again. it's a cycle. he understood better then.

we'll see if he goes to counseling or not.

mel

[25yearsmlc]

Good for you seeing what he has contributed to the m. Sometime, someday maybe soon maybe not, you can thank him for that. Not in a way that takes from you, but in a way that shows you see him as a decent guy in several ways.

If he brings up stuff that is true for him and makes him look good, validate it and say 'yes you did help provide for us, and supported my career and I want to thank you for that." Maybe add that "It made the many moves or the geography of where we were, easier to deal with. Also thanks for helping more with the house and d4. Glad you are enjoying being a good dad" etc...(only say it if it's true for you).

But focus on how you guys are interacting now, and what you think can happen going forward and from what we are seeing, it's clear you need to do what you are doing. Go dark except for d4 and keep your distance. This isn't all about getting the M restored, it's also about getting you healthy and safe emotionally. Do what you have to do...for you. Then worry about H and whatever the hell he's going to do/think/feel, etc. And keep the conversations short and about her...what else is there to discuss, given him wanting out? Again, why is he going to marriage counseling if he wants out? I still don't get it.

(( j ))

PS wish you could tell me how the heck to get a teaching job now! I have a doctorate in law (practiced for 20+ years) and am making the career change, but they make it so complicated...getting different answers from different people depending on whom I ask. FIrst woman said "you have to have a master's degree". I said, "I have a doctorate". She said, (I swear), "you have to have a master's" So I said, "well a doctorate is higher" and she could not...compute my response....anyhow....I digress. Meanwhile, I can walk down the street and teach at a college at least part time, starting tomorrow. But high school? You'd think it was NASA...I'm referring simply to the application procedure and what exactly you need. Go figure.

[Mellenmack]

Have you looked at that website troopstoteachers.com? It may not be much of a help now. MOST states have an emergency teaching certificate plan for people like you, who have a degree in something, but no teaching experience. you do realize you will be making next to nothing compared to lawyer pay?? just making sure. you might also consider teaching at a junior college or university if that peaks your interest, too. those jobs are fewer and further between though, too. that is what i would love to do is teach at the junior college level.

why is going to try the marriage counseling? in my opinion, he is not. he is only going to go so he can rail against me. If I am right, then i am right. if i am wrong, then, yeah, bonus, icing. prepare for and expect the worst. hope for the best.

mel

[kassie]

Dear Mel,

You posted to me about a different subject and I appreciated your response. I think you can be a very level headed person. I just found this thread and read about your stitch. I am so sorry to hear how things have gone. First, let me say it took courage to tell the truth and take responsibility. Second, we have a lot in common when dealing with AA H's - I hear you taking respons. but is he? I doubt it if he is drinking. Alcohol and M have a unique road - and certainly much difficulty. To keep things short for tonight -there is so much to say but I wont' yet- his drinking is in the way of reconciling. It is his way of coping - poorly- but that is what he knows when he is in pain - but that does not mean you have to be the target of his anger either. You may have done wrong - but he had the choice to deal with it maturely and he doesn't have the skills to do that. My guess is that he has long history of pain long before knowing you - your job -take good care of yourself - give him time to recover - his time - you hurt him now you have to let him take his time in recovery. I think you can count on him coming back and working on things. What you see and hear is the a-fog and pain mixed. Don't take it personally - this is his' pain not your's. One of the things I do recommend from alanon is to learn how to take care of yourself emotionally and practice detachment. I do not go to alanon - tried but found it too hard and depressing. But I read the literature. I could go into a discussion about the difference between an addiction and a problem - but whatever it is -it's still a problem that needs to be addressed. You can't address it =only he can. Will stop here. Can't send enough hugs to you for going through it. I am here and I will support you.

[K4D]

Again, sounds like you are making progress Mel. Cutos. Keep being strong and I think there is a chance he may really start coming around.

Got any big plans this weekend? I have my 7 year olds birthday party on Sunday.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

Mell,

on the mc issue, if your mc is half decent, they'll see right thru your h's approach and I'd love to be a fly on the wall.


H: W had an A!
MC: Still?
H: no, but...W HAD AN A!
MC: what do you want to do about it?
H: punish her...hurt her....string her along....make her suffer....have an A myself...and maybe someday get back together...?
MC: how's that "aprroach working" with your ultimate goal?
H: what?
MC: Ultimate goal? Getting back together? How's that going?
H: it's not. I hurt her too much and she moved on...
MC: oh
H: but I was "right"...
MC: Right? About what?
H: SHE HAD AN A!
MC: still?
H: no, but...W HAD AN A!
and so forth...


Seems to me that MC will say something useful to h if he/she is candid. How is the mc you have? Hope he's good...

Ours (5th of 5 in all...) was very good at the end; meaning the pro-M counselor seemed to call h on things more than any other mc. Ironically, b/c the other mc's wanted me to pretty much div H, saying he'd never change, or at least it was "Obvious h wanted to act like a single man in decision making..." and that "his priorities are not yours" so I was usually left with the distinct impression that divorce was a certainty, barring a miracle.

So, the last mc was more pro-M and a lot like a DB coach. HE challenged h and didn't let h keep going in the blame game. If he let h rant, he'd wait and then confront about how off target H's anger was..."is it really fair or accurate to blame w for your job's dissatisfaction? Do you see that making choices without w will hurt M even if choice was otherwise reasonable?" Stuff like that, but h liked that counselor, so go figure. The only thing that seemed to work in the long run with my h, was time alone where he went, with his choices. I mean he was alone and after his fellowship boards were passed, that same day he seemed to look around and notice that no one was there. "Where is everybody? Oh, oops, they aren't up here b/c I left them and came up here to build this great gazillion dollar job and THEN they'll like me again..." and he began calling me and saying things about wanting me up there. Kept it up, and eventually "begged" me to come up there and join him and just "give it a chance" up there... eventually I did. So, he had to go find himself alone with his choices. And he did.

Don't assume ow's are all good news for h and bad news for you either. I found that the men I met were not impressive, for the most part, and made me miss h more. So, there's that.

Trooper to teacher -- I will check it out but I got out of the military awhile ago. H got out in '01 but has discussed going back to reserves due to having so many years in & might only take a few years to earn retirement.
Yes, the cut in pay is actually almost funny. Like a 75% cut. I try to remind myself of the better hours and no ulcer/issues of "Gee, is this corporation really doing something legal?...cuz I don't feel soooo goooooddddd and I do want to keep my law license...."

And I did some work at d19's hs (intense two week project) and really enjoyed it and felt I was making a bigger diff than I did as a L in the past 10 years...we don't reward those in our society, based on the number of lives changed but that has to be the criteria for happiness at work. Talk to you soon on that.

Your h may come around and I wouldn't say that but for the things you say good about him in the past; and the fact that he wants to go to the mc. Of course, he wants to go WITH you...so you are smart to let him have his own time.Sure he may just want to rag on you in front of you so he can force you to hear him AGAIN...nice....

But on the off chance your mc has something to say to h that is candid and hard for h to hear, it'll get thru better without you there. Removes some of the pride from the room and h may be more willing to see his own role. That can't be a bad thing. Takes time. Good luck mell, seriously good luck.

(( j ))

[Mellenmack]

Thanks, everyone.

Kassie, I keep up with your stitch, but not sure what I can offer you. I will reread it tonight.

Kevin, enjoy the party!!! Do you take the girls out by themselves around their birthdays? I always admired the men who did that. Got the girls dressed up from a young age, brought them flowers, met them at the door, and took them out to eat somewhere NICE. I think that is part of how daughters learn how they are supposed to be treated. Remember the thing (story, movie, can't remember) about the dad taking the daughter to Paris, when she was sixteen because he wanted the first time she visited the City of Love to be with someone who loved her truly...her dad...

(((J))),
You have no idea how much I want to be a fly on that wall. I can't even begin to tell you. C is an older female. She's very "Gottman" and is more solutions-focused than others. I like her a lot. She is a MC, but has taken me on because she agrees that it only takes one. We'll see. No drama today. Minimal contact. He says he understands. There is always a day or two of quiet and normal and then a day of rage and arguments. I see the cycle now. I'm not doing it again. I wonder if he won't make the appointment and then if I would ask him about it, he'll say "Well, you said you wanted space, so I didn't make the appt." of course I won't ask though. it's his job to do it and tell me about it. or she can call if she wants to push the issue. not me anymore.

okay, Miss. J, Dr. J, here are some links:
http://www.caltroops.org/
http://www.ctc.ca.gov/

Lastly, you don't have to get certified in California. A lot of states offer reciprocity. For instance, if I got certified in NM, Texas would honor the licensure/certification, whatever you want to call it. It is stupid, but NOT ALL states do this. So, if it is easier to get licensed in NM than TX, but TX will recognize, it might be worth considering getting licensed in NM. You get the drift.

One more thing. Go talk to several teachers first. Make them tell you the bad things. Make them tell you how some of their kids' parents truly don't care about the kid's education. Make them tell you how LITTLE some kids come to class. Make them tell you how little law there really is to back up forcing a kid to come to school. Make them tell you how often they get called names in class and threatened. Make them tell you how many pregnant teens they have in class. Make them tell you how long they stay after school to get papers graded. Make them tell you how they spend more time testing and teaching the test than actual TEACHING. Make them tell you about spineless administrations who don't back up their teachers. Make them tell you about additional duties. Make them tell you how many times they have been yelled at and cussed out by a parent with no recourse. Make them tell you how much paperwork (25 pages, here) is involved in getting a kid referred to SPED. Make them tell you about attending IEPs.

There are good things too, don't get me wrong. Sometimes I think it's a wonder anyone teaches at all with everything they have to do. Why do it? The kids. They are amazing. All of them. They all have a story, and that's the part I love the most. Their story may make me sick to my stomach, but I love it. They are survivors who put up with (the best they can) walkaway parents, addicted parents, neglectful parents, abusive parents, etc. For the most part, I see kids who are not wanted. They are not cute anymore. They don't want to go to school. They don't want to do better. And their parents either don't know WHAT to do, or don't care, or give up. And that is hard. They are just babies. They are 17 years old, just trying to find their way. And their parents can't help them because the parents can't even find THEIR own way.

I will stop now. Make sure. I think the personal rewards will outweigh the monetary rewards by far, at least for me. Good luck!! Will let ya'll know how everything goes this weekend and then IC on Monday afternoon.

Mel

[Mellenmack]

OMG, people. Talked to MIL today. She is in Scottsdale trying to find out if she has stomach cancer or not. And she calls and I miss it and then she calls back later.

Boy, does she have things to tell. Anyone care to guess where OW slept when she went home with H to MIL's house for Christmas? MIL refused to answer the question, which of course confirmed my suspicions. Then I ask her if they are holding hands, kissing, hugging, that kind of stuff, and again, no answer. LMAO, because he tells me he doesn't want a wife!!! Ugh. So he is supposed to bring kids over tonight. She asked me of course to not report him because he could get in trouble and lose his career. BFD, to me, but whatever. Thought about telling him that he either needs to get her out by Wednesday or I would file a formal complaint with Base Legal/OSI or whoever. He is letting her talk bad about me in front of the kids, which really hurts. The baby is too young, but S13 is not. MIL was going to call him as soon as we hung up and tell what I knew so that I wouldn't have to, and because she was the one who told me. I'm not buying the "she slept on the floor" or "where else could she sleep" bit. I'm buying the "if she needed to sleep in the bed, you could have slept with the kids" bit. I am calling a lawyer first thing Monday morning and proceeding full speed ahead, I believe. Unless you guys tell me something to slow me down. This tit for tat stuff has been going on for awhile. How mature is this?????

But whatever. He will be here in a minute so I am going to post this and then be back in a minute to tell you how it went. We'll see.

Unbelievable.

A few questions. S13 has been living with him for the last 6 months. I am going to ask S13 if he wants to live with me due to what he is hearing there. Anybody have any opinions? How do I handle him tonight? I am cutting him off at the front door. I don't really want to even talk to him tonight. I'm sure he'll try to talk me out of everything and deny it all. It may not even be true, I guess, but who in their right mind plays this stupid?? I mean, really???



I'm singing my song girls..."if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all!!!"

Mel

[kassie]

Mel,
I found out my first H was seeing OW from my own mother who heard it from my kids who were 6 & 9 at the time. When I confronted him, he didn't deny it - I told him it was inappropriate for the kids to know - and it needed to stop until we lived in sep places. We were sep at the time but living under the same roof. I talked to the kids who were confused and surprisingly not wanting to be angry with their father. I did not try to give any excuses for his behavior nor to say anything negative about him.
I would talk to your son to see what he knows and then what he understands - remember kids don't understand things the way we do. I would offer him the oppt'y to live with me if he wanted but wouldn't force it. My kids were afraid of their father but wanted visitation anyway because he was their father. As my kids got older and wiser they told me that staying out of the middle between parents who are sep/div allows them to have a life.
In any case, slowing down and thinking things through i.e. what are the consequences of each action I take and which one can I live with. One thing i noticed in reading your posts about this R is that you both have been reacting instead of thinking when it comes to facing each other. hope this helps.

[breakaway]

Wow, Mel. Sorry to hear it but glad you found out.

You know, I was reading back through your thread tonight, and saw something that stuck out to me...when you were talking about how spoiled he was growing up, that he got whatever he wanted, lock stock and barrel, and acts "entitled." (I have some really good al anon literature that discusses the "entitlement" of the alchoholic)

Anyway, I wonder if he threw temper tantrums to get what he wanted then, which would explain why he throws them now. And why he's so bloody shocked when they don't do the trick now.

There was a kid on my son's baseball team, the coach's kid, that would throw unbelievable tantrums at games...never got disciplined, instead they caved and gave in every time. I've never seen anything like it. Anyway, I can see him as a grown-up now.

The other part of that is thinking he can do as he pleases...as in A not okay for you, but okay for him. Although I think it's as simple as getting back at you, really. If he was really into her and done with you he wouldn't be spending all his time goading you and trying to talk to you and screaming when you say you don't want to.

Well...I'm sorry for what you're going through, but I hope it does in fact take some of the weight off your shoulders, and his nuclear bomb away, so you can do whatever is next. I have no idea what to say about S13...haven't been in that sitch. I do think kids have a need to feel loyal to both parents, even if one of them is in the wrong. The other parent needs to accept that and not see it as disloyalty to themselves. If that makes sense.