The unfaithful wife...that's me..

[25yearsmlc]

I don't get it. Have to read more of the posts but the 2nd paragraph SEEMS to be saying you may want to remarry someday but he doesn't want to be married, which I assume means he wants a divorce? Or is he saying that the legal status of your m is something you may want to address later or clarify and for now he's fine with things as they are, which is what?

3rd paragraph says he wants to make things better....what things? The M? Your ability to have a civlized conversation? WTH is he saying?

now I'll go read your other posts but had to say I'm puzzled as to the wording...confusing...wacky.
j-

[Mellenmack]

Just for the record, that is the entire email except for "Mel," and him adding his name. I cut and pasted.

Mel

[Mellenmack]

2nd para: he means he wants the divorce and to not be married to anyone.

3rd para: he realized that i am the one who has been trying to make things better. he has not been and i called him on it in the letter and then later that night on the phone.

mel

[breakaway]

Mel, I am not surprised that he is still trying to "drag you in" to talking to him. You have done a 180, so he probably doesn't know what to make of it. If you want to respond at all to something like that, you can just say.."okay" or "thanks" or something. I think not saying anything was fine too.

I don't think you need to torment yourself trying to justify yourself. He's not even accusing you of anything, and yet his tactics have left you STILL trying to figure out what you HAVE done in the marriage, like his voice is still in your head, making you defend yourself, prove yourself. He's not even there, girl!!

Think forward...

[25yearsmlc]

Mel,

No it's not silly to recall what you contributed to the m, for God's sake. But it may be pointless to him, it may only matter to you. But so what? Do it for you so you know.

I was an active duty officer in the military, joining the Army b/c h owed the Army for med school and I thought, "if you can't beat em, join 'em" and then I got out of the Army after the first Gulf war b/c we couldn't be assigned together anymore and h's military committment was not up yet.

So then I was a "dependent spouse" (will someone please change that term???) for many years. That's what we do as a couple, and that's how it is for most military families. For us It wasn't a bad life and I'll always miss the comraderie it provided, unlike any other job or community.

Any soldier knows, or should, that military families go thru their own unique isolation, worry and heartache with the lifestyle & deployments. Even in peace time there is always the possibility of a conflict arising over night, and having your world turned upside down. Long separations are the "norm". And the moves to new areas where the kids are always "the new kid" get really old & painful to witness. Our kids got very tired of it and were promised that 3 years of HS would be in one place, and so far I kept that promise. H did not himself. H went off to the tundra for D19's junior and senior year and it has hurt their R so much.... I am still learning of the damage he did when he left, as she shares more with me lately...sad. (H was an Idiot...But again, I have to let go of that).

Thank God your daughter is young and happily clueless. The "contributions" you made as a working mom, let alone a military wife, are HUGE, and he's stupid to pretend otherwise. In denial. He's doing what he wanted, and you figured out how to "bloom where you were planted..." Good for you. Don't let him use your ability to find happiness against you. Thank God you function well enough to not be miserable when things are not ideal for you. Another problem unique to your sitch is the geographic uncertainty of how close you'll ever be to your family of origin.

I feel bad that your mom is sooo dependent on your dad that she can't leave him to visit her kids/grand-kids at all. It's pretty odd but I have some experience with it. My mom comes out and visited every assignment and home we've had, even visited us in Alaska, and she's in her late 80's. But she knows it's easier for her to fly out, and cheaper, than all of us buying tickets. She's retired, not us.

Yet, my mil has visited us once in 20 years. Why? Well, b/c she has 3 dogs and said she couldn't leave them for our s22's HS graduation, or our d19's HS graduation (and s22's college graduation came when mil was sick so h was spared the embarrassment of explaining to our children, her only grandchildren, btw, that the dogs again took priority over them. Yes, others offer to care for the dogs in the dog's home while she's away but she refuses, so she is simply choosing their company over our children's...try explaining that to a kid...). So, it's sad also b/c your mom's R with your d will be necessarily less than they could be otherwise. A 9 hour drive is a breeze to me now, after living in Alaska for for years.

I notice that d19 doesn't feel very close to mil, nor does d11. What a loss that would be if I were mil. But mil doesn't really seem aware of that, if you know what I mean. And your d is only 4, so hopefully you can make time for them to be together. (I'm getting my teaching credential btw, and love the idea of having the same holidays as my d11 and the college d, so you do have that going for you career wise, correct? A blessing indeed).

SO, here are my two other comments. First, as to the "note" he sent , I guess you could ask him for clarification without "attacking" him which is how he'll take it if you don't use extreme care, etc. "H, In terms of a response to your note, Can you help me understand what you want/need from me? I'm not clear on what you are telling me or asking me for..."

Also, getting a "script" for answers when h repeats some types of questions, is totally fine and reasonable if you are not "good on your feet" as my older sister says she isn't. She often asks me for prepared answers, that are still true for her, but she gets panicked in arguments and freezes up, and I'm a L, and a wordsmith so it's pretty much what I do for a living. ("Fast comebacks, my specialty!") (Especially sarcastic biting ones...oops)

OKAY...my second point was...what?? Oh yeah, the "co-dependent" reading and the other revelations you are having about childhood issues affecting you now, is a good valuable thing to do . BUT it is NOT necessarily solution focussed b/c by definition regular therapy looks at how you got somewhere, rather than what to do now, and going forward the way DBing does.

I think DBing is about doing things that work, regardless of whether you know or understand why. My biggest regret (other than being "rightfully angry" so long), is the useless efforts I made to comprehend h when his behavior was incomprehensible. And still is, btw. Accept that you may not ever understand your h, or why he does/says the things he does/says. Heck, I don't understand some things I do and say...

So, yes I think you are growing and learning and you should do that all you can. We all should, especially when it relates to poor choices we make today, b/c of residual crap from the past.

The insights you gain are going to be unsettling as heck at first. Trust me, I did some real work on myself in my late 20's when I became a mom, and I was kind of shocked at first. Some revelations don't lead to change, by the way. YOU have to actually implement the changes you realize you need to make, they don't just happen b/c you suddenly see why you incorrectly believed something. You have to figure out a lot...and then do it.

But please remember that regardless of why our h's do what they do, or how they got where they are, DBing says it's about doing what works today, now. With your sitch, who knows what will happen with your h? All you have control over, as you know of course, is you. What are you going to do from now on, to GAL, regardless of what h does?

Also, since your h's email is so contradictory and vague, you could ignore it. But it'll likely irritate him and he'll somehow try to be a victim or use it as "evidence" that you are uncooperative. Since you are a "woman only a fool would leave", of course, you can simply briefly react with some of the answers herein. Keep it short. Just put it back on him for him to clarify what he needs from you. Shove it back every time he tries to put this on you. He probes, and who knows why? He might not know. Probably wanting to know you are there still, so he can have you waiting...or not. WHO KNOWS?? WHO CARES??

j-

[25yearsmlc]

okay now that I see your posts and his meaning, forget a long response. I mean, "okay"...seems fine to me. Let him work on figuring out what you mean.

Besides, his actions speak more clearly than anything he says. And his choosing to do nothing is a choice; and he knows by your words and actions what that will mean. But the choice to do nothing is his answer, and he's responsible for that. Also, you said having d4 was his choice.

You may not realize it now, but she's the best thing you'll ever have done. And try to see her as the Godsend she is, not a ball and chain. You'll never regret having her in your life though she's more labor intensive now than she will be later. You are lucky to have her.

j-

[25yearsmlc]

okay now that I see your posts and his meaning, forget a long response. I mean, "okay"...seems fine to me. Let him work on figuring out what you mean.

Besides, his actions speak more clearly than anything he says. And his choosing to do nothing is a choice; and he knows by your words and actions what that will mean. But the choice to do nothing is his answer, and he's responsible for that. Also, you said having d4 was his choice.

You may not realize it now, but she's the best thing you'll ever have done. And try to see her as the Godsend she is, not a ball and chain. You'll never regret having her in your life though she's more labor intensive now than she will be later. You are lucky to have her.

j-

[Mellenmack]

I completely agree about D4. She is totally what makes my life worthwhile. i love my son. but this girl...is everything in the world that I ever wished for.

I ended up not responding to that email at all. So of course he emails again.

"Hey,
I tried to call. I am not stalkin’ ya I swear!!! My W2 is in. If you would like we can compile our stuff. Robs Mom is going to help me out. I would like to send it all to her to take care of it. Will that work for you?"

All I email back is that I don't have mine yet but will let him know when I do. I didn't even sign my name. He calls twice. I don't answer. He calls cell. I don't answer. I was mostly in a meeting but also busy. Then starts the texting "how are you." I say fine and I don't ask how he is. He asks what's going on and I say "nada". I don't ask what he's doing. Finally he says okay, sorry to bother you. I don't reply.

Then he calls. "So, Mel, how long are you going to keep this up?" You know, I can think fast enough for a smart a$$ comeback, but when I am trying to make a R work, my thought process is just frigging out the window. We spend an hour placing blame but not focusing on a solution, with him running thru the whole scenario from beginning to end again, like it's necessary, with him still the victim. Never seeing that he EVER did anything wrong. All he sees that he messed up is drinking for the first ten years "and then I quit drinking. I went to counseling and I'm better now" Nothing else he did contributed to the downfall. It is completely and totally my fault. He doesn't understand that he set his boundary (wanting the D) and now I have to set my own (no contact except for kids) for my own sanity. He is mad about that!! Finally he is yelling that I am being hateful and spiteful again, two of his four favorite words (the last being "YET AGAIN".) He yells in the phone "Is this how you want it? No talking, no nothing at all, except about the kids??? Is this what you want?? Because this pisses me off!!" And finally I just say "Yeah, if you are going to yell and scream, it is." And I hung up.

Within ten minutes I have a text "Tell me your next appointment and I will go". I don't think he really wanted to make an effort. He wanted to go in there and rant on me in front of her, so that he would feel better. But she won't allow it and I know that. I told him he would have to make his own appoinment by himself first. That she wouldn't see us together until later. I think it deflated him somewhat. "So we can't go together?" But he has said before "I really don't think you want me to go in there and tell this lady everything." lmao, sweetie, because I already did so you go have at it. But I didn't say that last part. I told him, yeah, I do. Why wouldn't I?? I WANT THINGS BETTER. And if that's what it takes, then so be it.

Good golly. ya'll didn't bargain for all that did you???

J, I completely agree and will make this suggestion for EVERYONE out there. There is no better job as far as time with your kids, than the school district job. Just get a foot in the door. Teach if you can. Support staff if you can't. It's not all peaches and cream, don't get me wrong. But the time I have off with D4 is a priceless treasure that I will never trade for anything. Wish I could post pics so ya'll could see the little angel. I don't know what I would ever do if something happened to her.

Love ya'll and thanks for listening to me rant and offering advice. I don't think is quite the right path yet. I think he's looking down the path for the wrong reasons, but at least he realizes there is one and is maybe looking at it. Not taking it, mind you, but baby steps, I know. Baby steps.

mel

[K4D]

So when he blames you for something, just keep saying "I agree. Now how do we fix this moving forward?" That will probably throw him for a loop if you keep it up.

At one time I thought about getting a job at the school to be with my kids to. But thats not an option now. But ya, that would be cool. I'm glad you are able to do that. I'll bet your daughter is a cutie. I know mine are.

It sounds like you are really starting to take control of the situation and pulling him in the path you want. Thats great. Keep up the good work. I like it.

There may be real hope for your marriage. Now if he can just do away with the bottle, that would greatly improve things.

I'm glad for you Mel and we are always here for ya,

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

OMG, he's got some definite buttons on him, and he sure does hunt for yours! Man, can't believe him, he is relentless. I think your approach is working to some extent. He isn't indifferent, that's for sure. And he DID "cool off", after you hung up I guess. I see his behavior as his way of pursuing you, but in a way that doesn't "cost" him any risk; it more or less just keeps you on a string, if it works. But it didn't work with you this time.

Tell me now, You told him what you wanted; i.e., contact only re: d4, correct?

And this is what he does in response? Says you are a b---- and that He wants to "be friends" but that means...what? That "friendship" is more or less all on his terms, correct? Or do I have the details right?

He wants to jerk your chain really badly. And I think he's doing a lot of testing...and you are doing well. On the whole, he knows you're changing, and going into a direction that may not include him, b/c it's healthy and you don't want the toxicity of the present R (or past one either) anymore. He doesn't know if he can interact in a healthy way. What was it like when it was good with you two?

Does that R/M with him still seem reachable? Do you now see things more clearly?

Good and bad...Not saying that seeing it badly is necessarily a clearer picture, okay? I just don't hear a lot of things from you about how the past M with him was good....and more importantly, (and this may not apply to you so don't assume it does, I'm just observing...)

I'm surprised at how many LBSers say when they really sit down and think about it, they see the big flaws in the M and WAS that they didn't notice or accept before. When the crisis first starts, and the WAS left, a lot of denial happens about the past M, for we believe we miss them, and we try hard to hold onto the WAS only to later realize, that as they are now, we don't actually want them at all. Nor was our M what we hoped. We just don't want to be alone, or to be the one left behind, or to accept that the spouse we are m to now, isn't desirable to us at all....and where does that leave us?

Just throwing stuff out. But you have enough to deal with due to your "hyperactive communicator", and as for the counselling appointment--Marriage Counselling? OMG I PRAY he goes to the appointment and tells "all your sins" (please God, please...) but why does he even go if he doesn't want to be M? Is it b/c he says it's for the d4? Or to prove he did try at the M, or what? I'm not clear on that. Need details on that stuff.

He sooo wants to suck you into the drama of it all but I have to ask one thing.

WHY did you allow the conversation to go on and on? Pointless, destructive, etc.

You could say "I already apologized for my mistakes and if I could do it all over again, I'd do some things differently. But I don't recall the M the same way you do, and we'll just have to agree to disagree...have to go now, good bye" AND HANG UP... write it down if it's too long. A shorter answer is "this isn't productive. Call me when you aren't angry" and see if that ever happens. Going over the blame game is useless and destructive and does not help you raise your child together. So, what's the point? (Maybe you can say that to him.)

Stay calm at all times with him and he will be sooo lost and confused...seriously. This way you can keep the focus on d4, and the R you have with h is based on that only, for now. So what else is there to discuss?

((For now that is. And who knows? I think that if you ever get back together, it'll be based on your common interests in d4 and it'll be calmly, slowly rebuilt. You'll have to do this rebuilding anyhow, unless you always want to have a verbally violent R with him. That'd be crazy.))

What do others say about that response? Some type of firm, courteous, mature BUT brief DB response. Keep it short, I know that much about your h. The more you talk with him about R, the more circular it becomes and you get NOWHERE - but it hurts to do the loop de loop...he is just too angry and his anger prevents him from doing the real searching, which is within. I read somewhere that our "real journey on earth is an inward one..." and I believe that. Your h is just not ready for anything like that now. And really, isn't that mandatory for your M?

You spoke of not knowing what to say when you want to build a good R with him...but, Setting and enforcing boundaries with him, does not hurt the R/M in the long run. I think it's the opposite. But it does make waves. It's change. That isn't a smooth thing. The "smoother" thing (for him) would be for you to continue kissing his a-- and feeling like crap, endlessly doing penance for your sins AND his, and him not having to do or change a thing, except to maybe "sin" more, since he has a "get out of jail free" card he holds over your head. Throwing it in your face when you dare make a normal wife request...but now you're changing the rules. You don't want to be sucked into his crazy world of victimhood and the 'blame you' for all problems, loop.

So...what is he to do now? Stew and fester and fume, and maybe see ow more, hurt you more, or what? Oh, wait, I know. He could maybe try to grow up...the only thing on your end there, is to stop enabling him to dump all the M problems on you. Don't allow it.

And really now, if he doesn't grow up soon, & do some soul searching like you have, do you really see a M with him anyhow?

(( j ))